Mighty snakefist mighty wall-o-tex(TM)

13

Mighty Snakefists Mighty Train of Wise Thoughts


This is the thread where the Infinite Wisdom of Mighty Snakefist will be posted, in a form of Endless wall-o-tex(TM). Feel free to comment, but please don't quote *whole* posts, followed by acronyms. Otherwise, this is mainly meant for devs (who are probably get used to this Ingenious Method of communication by now).


The Disclaimer, The Viewpoint - what does Mighty Snakefist thinks currently

"those are the droids we're looking for"

There isn't *any* principally wrong mechanic in the game currently. Tweak this-and-that-a-bit - maybe, but everything is right. So says Mighty Snakefist.


The Covenant, The Story - Things that the D2 built

Story needs to be repeated three times, three is the charm - as far as is known to Him, it was initial plan and probably is now, too - please don't change it at any cost. Unlike D3, the game which reeks of Heresy but is unfortunatelly often cited as 'comparison' to Inquisitor or (blasphemy!) a false idol which Inquisitor should... idolize? Follow! In its dubious and Wrong but Predictable solutions... So.... It's important to have repeatable story why?

Story, tier1

Story, as such, will be of an extreme quality, both from aRPG and WH40k point of view. It is of introductionary value, the basic skills and builds, all while being deeply immersed in storytelling. New players can't *skip* it, not because some pre-imposed restrictions, but rather because of... quality. Equally important, Story tier1 leaves player with *unfinished* build (typical D2 campaign ended before reaching lvl30, and last tier of skills are just starting at that level - so there's plenty more to draw player further.

Story, tier2

Not just repeat-with-harder-opponents! As said, the character build progresses further to include new (lvl30) skills and improve build. Along with that, tier2 is subtly *different* - and example are Mercs (which change their concept and influence to the game) and the another tier of weapons - player gets rather different feeling while playing the same (still relatively new and exiting and worth repeating) storyline.

Story, tier3

A challenge. Bringing what tier2 brought, except... The environment is now wildly different and much harder - for example, most mobs have type-of-damage immunities, often two of them, which 'mildly enforces' player to adapt, seek new gear (this is *quite* important for resistance-type gear, since it makes game playable, which is certainly not with all of the resistances in minus values, which tier3 mercilessly impose on player). Rewards, on the other hand, can be huge and with Mighty Requirements (attributes and level, often greater than those achieved *after* finishing story). 

(There won't be that in Inquisitor, which has dedicated endgame, a bonus over Fatha' D2)


The Dictionary, The Thesaurus - Types of players, generally sorted, and equally appreciated

The Casuals

Players who don't (initially, at least) plan to invest hundreds of hours of time. Casuals are drawn by either general liking of WH40k universe and/or basically buying most of the games with WH40k in title. Some (arbitrary) points of this type:

- they like a good story

- they like faithful representation of WH40k

- they absolutely HATE bugs happening during play through, and are likely to leave negative reviews there are some

- they often like playing with a dedicated player (don't know if it's planned for story) - and are merciless in reviews when coop-bugs are happening during their joint play

- after finishing The Story with one character or build, they quit playing for a while; or finish it again from the start with another character; or play some missions

- Casuals are usually not influences with balance (as long as it's possible to pass the hard parts) and doesn't mind complicated affixes like '+6.7% Salvo' and similar - they don't mind those existing, but usually chose items according to red/green comparison tip, or some basic preference (+HP or +reg)

- Casuals have potential of advancing (or rather 'changing' - all are treated with respect and equally) to other groups


The Advanced Ones

Players who either advanced from Casuals or were like that from the start. Some (arbitrary) points of this type (most are similar to Casuals, only differences are noted):

- they are much more forgiving to bugs, especially ones solved by restarting a game, or 'curable' by other means, much less likely to leave negative reviews for bugs (mention them - yes; basing review on bugs rather than gameplay - no)

- they are playing with all types of modes (Story, later tiers of Story, coop, endgame, PvP)

- they are influenced with balance issues, if they become important (PvP)


The Old Ones

Players who either advanced from Casuals/Advanced or were like that from the start. Some (arbitrary) points of this type (only differences are noted):

- they are nearly immune to bugs, unless game breaking

- they are less influenced with balance issues, unless if very important (but likely to post them in the forums, instead in the review); they are very systematic and dedicated about each affix because they often build a character according to well thought-out design

- endgame and added content influence them greatly, and so is constant care for game by the devs (regular bugfixes, balance updates, content updates both paid for and free)


Mighty Snakefist, Itemization Insights of

It's THE FIRST innovative system after Fatha' D2. It is GOOD. Skipping 'ten thousand million-billions thing', which D3 loves so much, cleverly. Easy to keep balance-wise. Allowing meaningful progression (through affixes, Snakefist suspect, in His Wisdom - yet we have only 4 planet levels as of now, so it's hard to be sure). Nice one! 


Could be improved, though:

- YELLOWS, soon after start are useless, completely - yet they are picked automatically (or given after mission), making the useless things 'infecting' the inventory; might as well have option to convert to money or be salvaged. 

(Snakefist wouldn't advice on other games solutions, such as item-filter, VH-system with Katarina and so on - they are plainly unusable)

- BLUES, bit later than yellows become equally useless. Snakefist mention, more than once, that they are not *need* to be 100% obsolete.

(There's a easy way, introduced by - who else, Fatha D2, in which Affixes or Damage or Deflect could roll *higher* than those on Greens. This makes them possibly useful, because Snakefist doesn't always have perfect Greens (mostly he doesn't) - 2 affixes are really good, 3rd is... he could live without it entirely ('sup-reg in cover' for Melee, for example), especially if the Blue in question is giving + 5-10% of something)

- GREENS, a bread and butter currently. 3 affixes + modifier. All can be crafted, as of now random, completely (may change with additional crafting options). Good, all in all.

- PURPLES, crafted - less flexible as of now, but GREAT potential. Less flexible, how? More chances when rolling affix values (AHEM, BLUE SHOULD HAVE THIS, TOO - AND WHOLE CODE EXISTS ALREADY)... 2 kinds of blueprints for each. 

(Currently, 2 pre-set affixes might not be droids certain build is looking for, and it can happen with both blueprints. Consequently, that build doesn't profit for having hard-to-find blueprints at all, which can be frustrating a bit. Luckily, there's no limit of how much Mk.X blueprints can exist, and what affixes will be fixed. There can be only ONE! Or something like Fixed + 'one of the following' options, not guaranteed anything, but chances are better than 2 randoms)

- PURPLES, found - random as they are, may roll with significantly better than crafted. Then again, Crafting will be improved.

- ABOVE PURPLES - not enough information now, like if there will be Artefact blueprints (there should be), etc.


Mighty Snakefist, This is where He gets tired

As said, He would post and post more in the future. But not today. This is clearly unfinished...


Mighty Snakefist, A Random Suggestions of

In no particular order, what came to His mind:


QoL: Add Sell Yellows button to Merchant, same as is for Artificer

QoL: Add comma for all 'large' numbers - makes them easier to read, does Snakefist needs 200000 or 20000000 exp for advancing? 200,000 or 2,000,000 is much more readable.

QoL: Redesigned tooltips or something... anything where actual damage, in raw value and dps could be seen AFTER all modifiers are applied. Having +Range, +Fire, +AoE +somethingsomething, even with all those percentages given isn't... clear. Do the percentage multiply or add? Etc... While at it, how about old (Grandfatha D1!) trick of 'getting enemies better, though killing'? Someone who exterminated 100,000 Cultist should know them well - we could have a Cultist info with resistances and weak points listed, and some other data. Fatha' D2 had that too, from data-mining of game files - so, it could/would happen, but isn't the official way much better?

Random: Maps, multileveled - consist of several connected maps (not really, just one has exit that brings player to next), loot/exp given upon finishing the last (perhaps with some mini-boss or something unusual - like 5 Elites). Tower (Undertower, even) type, something unholy found on Dead Worlds. Maps of gradually progressing difficulty (not majorly, but still some)

Random: Grand Investigation, Pieces of Remembrance: You are an old and experienced Inquisitor. Did countless missions and Investigations. At some point, you get a fixed idea, an obsession. There's something connecting some of the missions from your rich past. They all seemed normal at a time, but a thread of similarity exists. Something connects then and something greater could be behind them all! 

So, Grand Investigation would be a 10+ connected missions, much similar to Investigation, but EARNED though playing and occurring to players with lots of games. In a manner, it's something between normal Investigation and Story, with little additional resources (some flavour text, perhaps a different pattern of some, or just ending, maps, already existing mini-boss at the end, Godlike reward). This is one of 'unusual happenings' Snakefist spoke few times before, unexpected thing that can surprise and make happy even the veteran player. Vibrant Universe...


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Mighty snakefist mighty wall-o-tex(TM)
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250 days ago
+1
There! Train-of-thoughts (tm) is at no station! Not forgotten, never never will....


On loot mechanics and fat-reduction, or was it fate?


Speedruns were kinda problem, but current solution (reduce fat, reduce exp; all in percentage of total slain HP) is making all missions Purge-like, and it shouldn't be so... From another game, a good example:


D2, of course: had some speedruns, mostly for the high ilvl drops, but also for exp (while applicable)... BUT! If/when bored, player could just switch to another map, without losing anything. Exp, loot - all there.


Inquisitor: can't leave because of (endless disgrace and) losing of Grand Reward. Less-than-purge results in lower exp/fate, while taking more time than unsuccessful purge, which would give same exp/fate, no Grand Reward though.


NeoCore is aware of this, but (paraphrasing) "we'll throw some item here and there". Please be CAREFUL! Current item-replacement/time curve is very good. While adding something, please remove the same from a Grand Reward. 


Player is now enforced to do near-purge. He should be *motivated* instead. As in, "if I clear the map, something good might happen" (and I'll get full reward). 


Snakefist, in His Wisdom, suggests:

- reduce purge/speedrun ratio to max 50%, and min 25%

- add Grand Reward items into chests (replacing trash-whites/blues/basic materials fount inthem now), and remove them from Grand Reward - just a few, but perhaps the best one (purple, if rolled)

- add *anything* worthy clearing the map - Massacre acc-exp bonus, Unbreakable acc-exp bonus (not much, but noticeable at current acc-level - 2-3% of needed quantity for level; possibility to have more acc-exp from mission than listed, but not much); award secondary objectives completing; make a bounty for fate (last two for fate, first for acc-exp)

- spawn random powerful elites(s), as it was in VH; add decent drop (or exp) to these as a secondary

- something along these lines - you are aware already!


TL;DR

...You know He cannot allow this; everyone claiming *any* kind of knowledge of aRPG mechanics AND wanting to "add salt" to His Mighty Train-of-thoughts (tm) has to read the text in it's completeness. Sorry, Dave...


Mighty Snakefist, in His Vast Experience, acknowledges the legitimacy of stopping speed-run mechanic; He points out NOT to influence the time/improvement curve, because it's good now; He strongly suggests "reward" over "enforce" approach; Oh, what a wise friend is Snakefist...

359 days ago

Since aRPG mechanics, we might as well forget the dice damage and just have DPS comparable with shields. As component, hmmmmm, perhaps one with knockback, animation could look nice and 'organic' - so far the best ones belong to Hammers. Or give some block/protection as shields.


But apart from skills and their codex connections - those could be 'affix items', carrying what weapons or shield not normally have (+Attributes, for example - not a mandatory roll, but with a chance to get; something along those lines).

1 year 50 days ago

Cooldowns would work, I think.


So, for a good chunk of time the Mighty Fist of Power was "Hits Last, doubles Strength (max 10), ignores armor saves", lightning claws (I assume that's what you meant by lightning fist?) were "reroll wounds, ignores armor saves", and my personal favorite (the mighty mighty chainfist) operates identically to the Power Fist but with 2d6 armor pen (because screw that tank over there, I'm gonna punch it).


Given how much damage they do (or did, during my heyday), what would you personally use as the skill components? I mean Armor Piercing is a given... but what else?

1 year 50 days ago

Coming from aRPG background doesn't allow good or relevant solution for something like "hits last" - its existence was even unknown to me!


But, initially there were only shield + one-handers, and later dual-wield is added, but much is still missing (such as key remapping for both keyboard and mouse etc.)


Idea was to make something that would "behave" like a suppression shield - '1' is block, and '2' is AoE, both having no need for precise pointing (well, if we suppose that we block something infront of us, not quickly turning around and such ideas).

Main idea is a that fire-and-forget, target "Self" mechanism found on Shields (which I honestly find more useful for melee builds with '1' and '2' keybinding), could be an useful and provide flavour.


Most people here (probably >90%) know more of actual WH40k skills then I do. Perhaps that "hits last" mechanic could be simulated though a cooldowns, or delayed onset on action - there's some Lighting Fist that could, for instance, activate mentioned Lighting in, example, 2 sec after skill is used?


Anyhow, whole Fist thing seemed reasonably iconic for WH40k, and perhaps should be there anyway. 


The propositions of actual skills on Fists are more than welcome, and I'm sure that people who know WH40k more intimately could come up with some...

1 year 51 days ago
SnakefistIfSo

Sorry about that, some cross-thread contamination. Back on point...


That's one of my major concerns about Neocore's timing with the Steam release, the bugs. I've seen way too many store pages with 0.1hrs played (or less) with "Menu didn't have X option, not recommended", and entirely too many of those voted "helpful" by hundreds of users.


How would you recommend power fists be incorporated? Unless things have changed, they've got that pesky "hits last" in the tabletop because they're godawful slow. Curious about that, given the pace of many other melee weapons.

1 year 52 days ago

As clearly said, this is Snakefist's own Train of Thoughts. Though Snakefist snakeself would be happy to discuss any rational and constructive post, even admit that He is wrong if that unique occasion happens...


This time He'll answer only about 'Casuals' - potential buyers of this game are divided into three main groups, each treated with equal respect. Point of dividing them was according to their expectations of the game. 


In recent time, Early Access date is set, luckily there is no Story planned yet - but if there were, Casuals would be extremely unhappy with any Story-related bugs. They will be merciless toward coop bugs too, so frequent in current build and they will be likely to leave bad reviews and hurt the sales.


Snakefist snakeself is anything but 'casual player'.


Mighty Snakefist, Game suggestions, in no particular order

QoL - Inventory, usually for weapons, gets full, another Reward window pops up, player clicks Claim, there is a message, player clicks again to remove - get rid of one message appearance/approval

Itemization - Powerfist, in its variants - many weapons exist in their dual-wielding capabilities, yet only shields are constructed as PRIMARY off-hand items, and function as intended (other weapon often has some difficulties). As Powerfists are worthy addition to a WH40k-based game, Snakefist (in His Wisdom) proposes them added and designed in the manner similar to shields, as the primary off-hand

QoL - side quest tooltips - add a very short description next to their name. Currently, it is unknown what they do, and simple "Activate all three shrines, to decrease enemy HP by 10%" would make player aware what he is doing and why

Visuals - remove some clutter in Endless Mission from time to time. After a certain times, the amount of remains is so large that players can't see... anything

This comment was edited 1 year 52 days ago by SnakefistIfSo
1 year 52 days ago
+1
Posted by BrotherLazarus 1 year 52 days ago

I don't disagree with you on that point, but the hordes are more likely, in my experience, to complain about the time spent to get gear/XP than to actually bother getting it.


Most of my statements are being couched with the expectation that we'll see broader "market appeal" introduced in future updates, and hoping to steer that in a way that makes the experience richer, rather than watering it down like so many developers have done in the past.


So, in expectation of negative feedback from hardline casual players, my feedback as a not-quite-hardcore player is to take that into account so that the main, story content can be experienced properly; and leave enough of an opening in the barrier to entry that they can experiment with the challenge content as well. As an example, I disliked the challenge content for Grim Dawn when I first got into it, but eventually got good enough that I was able to start not only doing it, but actively succeeding at it--and that felt awesome from an "upper tier casual" perspective, like I'd done something noteworthy (which to be fair, learning a game to the point where your builds can go soloing challenge content is an achievement in itself for a mostly casual gamer).

Agree. Yes i gave up on Grim Dawn for the reason to me the learning curve was way to uphill for me and the last fight is just rubbish. The other thing i hated with Grim Dawn is the 'on rails' game play. If i am having trouble with the story line I need something else to do to get around it(open world). Don't want to see this game go the same way. As for 'market appeal' the best gauge of that is to monitor the numbers. The Dev's are the only ones to see those all we can do is guess(which I think is a bad thing).

1 year 52 days ago
+1
Posted by Christs 1 year 52 days ago

I only do a thumbs done if there is nothing useful/fictional or helpful. Not that i disagree with. I did not read all of it as it's way to long winded, but I did not read anything in the post i read about how to fix the issues the OP raised. A nice simple please raise the fate drops because 'reason' is more than enough.


As for 'casuals'. The more you play the game(not stand in hub/log on log off) the faster you should get drop's/exp. and items.

I don't disagree with you on that point, but the hordes are more likely, in my experience, to complain about the time spent to get gear/XP than to actually bother getting it.


Most of my statements are being couched with the expectation that we'll see broader "market appeal" introduced in future updates, and hoping to steer that in a way that makes the experience richer, rather than watering it down like so many developers have done in the past.


So, in expectation of negative feedback from hardline casual players, my feedback as a not-quite-hardcore player is to take that into account so that the main, story content can be experienced properly; and leave enough of an opening in the barrier to entry that they can experiment with the challenge content as well. As an example, I disliked the challenge content for Grim Dawn when I first got into it, but eventually got good enough that I was able to start not only doing it, but actively succeeding at it--and that felt awesome from an "upper tier casual" perspective, like I'd done something noteworthy (which to be fair, learning a game to the point where your builds can go soloing challenge content is an achievement in itself for a mostly casual gamer).

1 year 52 days ago
+1
Posted by Ruinous 1 year 53 days ago

Its a bit rambling, but there is much I'm in agreement with here. Curious why its getting the downvotes, what is it people are finding objectionable? The D3 criticism? ;)

I only do a thumbs done if there is nothing useful/fictional or helpful. Not that i disagree with. I did not read all of it as it's way to long winded, but I did not read anything in the post i read about how to fix the issues the OP raised. A nice simple please raise the fate drops because 'reason' is more than enough.


As for 'casuals'. The more you play the game(not stand in hub/log on log off) the faster you should get drop's/exp. and items.

This comment was edited 1 year 52 days ago by Christs
1 year 52 days ago
SnakefistIfSo

"Other, uglier things" such as proposing that maybe the casuals are right, and maybe some of the grinding to get gear is a little over-the-top causing friction?


I know I see more downvotes when I propose anything involving lessening the grind to appeal to casual players, so they can experience the game and not feel left out.

1 year 53 days ago
-1
Ruinous

Snakefist would suspect other, uglier things - He doubts that those downvoters have read even the first paragraph, let alone whole stuff. They play "follow the leader". Lack of arguments for disagreement is enough proof for that. 


Mighty Snakefist, in His Wisdom, doesn't care for that at all - he is known to devs, and they in all the likeness read his stuff, at least some of them. He will continue this thread, no matter how many negative votes he gets.

1 year 53 days ago

Its a bit rambling, but there is much I'm in agreement with here. Curious why its getting the downvotes, what is it people are finding objectionable? The D3 criticism? ;)

1 year 55 days ago
-4

This is posted in another tread, but Mighty Snakefist will qoute Snakeself and put it here, too. Because it's worthy of Mordor!


On The Well of Wisdom that is D2, wrongdoing explained:

- Farming, and exp/hour - there was, or could have been, but never important. Why? Huge exp / level demand (10x) making builds basically ending there, at 85th 

- No stupid paragons at all

- Additional levels, though possible (oh, Snakefist knows so much of that) aren't a game requirement, because good items >>> level99 (which is the hard-cap level, and there's no Paragons which are there, and everyone has them, and they use exactly for nothing if summed up)


There will be grinding!

We are all expecting it. It wouldn't be an aRPG is there wouldn't. But, what to grind?


Exp grind is happening, but is hardly a memorable thing. So, less noticeable it is, the better. Item tiers are excellent for this - jump-start and start item-grinding faster (and somewhat harder). We all have done exp-grinding, but aren't proud of it.


And there's the exact point where 'youtube guy' type of characters appear, in games such as D3. (Snakefist thinks of one especially irritant one, one who fancied himself a player and used nothing but abuses, but was a crappy player otherwise - Snakefist saw his micro, Emprah protect from having that - and enough about him, he's not worthy).

There, the youth of today, or rather 5 years ago since D3 popularity declines constantly, could have and did see the 'newest exploits', which was the enterance in the Endless Fun of exp/hour Paragon grinding.


What is 'fun grinding', then?

Items. Unpredictable drops that happen during gameplay. Snakefist can mostly remember where exactly he got his Mighty Gear, even that tree-trunk which gave him The Precious (Perfect Blue item, he can't stress enough how important is *not* having completely useless tiers of items). The ecstasy of seeing unidentified Unique drop. The hope during opening Mighty Inventory and the joy or disappointment upon seeing item, or it's stats.

THOSE are memorable moments, and 'this is the pre-drawn path where I grinded 10 zillion exp using the 'Baba-Yaga's quickened route+ v.2.01', which I found (of course) on youtube.


Item drops can't be found on youtube. Nobody can teach you how to abuse RNG. In that part, even repeatable Mephisto-runs were fun. What is completely unfun is having a 'Set Dungeon' where complete sets can and must be found - they were so painful to collect in D2 (most were completed by trade) and too easy in D3. Fan service. It was *done* because spoiled players *demanded* it and they got no joy from having it.


Item drops in Inquisitor?

Well... We are kinda testing endgame or open world or whatever. But fond remembrance of founding item on End Mission screen - well... Well well... There's that part with blueprints and chests, a tiny bit better. Tiny.


Tarot is currently most fun item grind Inquisitor can offer - player *needs* to grind for those, both for directive and if he wants some extra (mission bonus is fun that way), then playing WITH FRIENDS - that was reason Mighty Snakefist reacted so quickly and uncompromisingly on the Fate change - the arbitrary best part of the game was 'nerfed'. 

It is a thing that CAN be remembered (and later lovingly cherished) - 'I was playing with my own build which I chose by *myself* and got experience (seamlessly) and Fate, without omnipotent youtube-recipe, and then found friends from Cabal and then we played Tarot TOGETHER (not everyone paying the same, so someone could work for the Emprah overtime, and everyone feels connected to each other and to Emprah and the founding that-famous-item, even if it is on the on the End Mission screen).


Can be done ALONE, too(higher price since no friends, but manageable still. And still memorable.


And the Youtube-Guy and His Many Exploits can be ignored completely - in fact, wherever someone post quickest-leveling guide, devs can see it clearly and adjust the game to become more balanced.


Mobs and bosses - we saw what careless and clueless devs can do with, how they changed it in many, many patches and how it's still worthless (in D3, of course) - first, we'll farm Act-bosses, then no - we'll farm random Elites, then no - now we'll farm maps and small mobs (not unlike Purge, in result), and then we'll starting with 'inventions' such is Adventure Map (oh, so like the Teleports in D2, but they are Adventure Map, The Feature). And others. There is *some* quality in the current state of game, but weight of the incorrectable mistakes is too great.


Balance would be somewhere inbetween, Snakefist suspects, rationally. Something is achieved by grinding (Fate) then spent giving at least *some* result and something is crafted, and something is mob/elite (or boss) connected.


ADDITIONS: 

- Exploits exist and will continue to exist. Even now, He, in His Endless Proficiency, found one. Thing is not making them overpowered.


- Finishing Missions or Investigations brings too little joy - Regular and Blurd, sometimes a useful Green. Best thing that could be found is a Blueprint. By definition, not good enough - current typical gameplay is:

- Snakefist finishes a number of missions, without even looking at 'rewards'

- When Mighty Inventory is full, Snakefist mercilessly scraps all Regulars and Blues, throws a short look at Greens and mostly scraps them all, too