Melee Weapon Critique v0.2.0

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I'm going to go over each Melee weapon and provide feedback and suggestions.  These are observations that have come up during my playtime with each weapon.  

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All gameplay was done on Challenge 3, Chernobog System.  

Attack Rank 1 - 47/66

Defense Rank 1 - 47/66

---  In Alphabetical order.  ---

1) Chainsword (1H) -  Performs very well.  Skills are useful and perform well in rotations.  Look forward to trying Pistols.  Eviscerate:  Great single target.  Skything Strike:   Add DoT

2) Eviscerator (2H) -  Its a work of art.  The best set of complementary skills in the entire Melee Weapon line.  The best trash clearing weapon in the game.  It was awesome in Dark Heresy and its awesome here.  Savage Assault: is what all weapon skills want to be when they grow up.   Spinning Blow:  I challenge everyone to Assault jump into a group then hit Spinning Blow.   

3) Greatwsword (2H) - A solid weapon balanced between Single and AoE.  Blade Flurry:   Add Critical Strike  Crippling Strike:   Nice ability, Description says hold attack to find vulnerabilities...Add Charge or Aim Shot?  Spinning Blow:  DoT makes this good.

* This next three are all Power Weapons and all need quite a bit of attention.  1h weapons only get 2 abilities they have to be done well.

4) Power Axe (1H) -   Feels good in combat but stats on the skills don't feel right. Strike:  Remove DoT, Add Vulnerability. Increase damage.  Scything Strike:  Increase damage and cooldown.  Add Armor Breaking.

5) Power Hammer (1H) - Legit single target weapon.  Potentially the best LMB of the 1 Handers except for the Knockback.  Poor AoE, Shockwave is just sub par compaired to the others.  -  Strike:  Remove Knockback (please...I feel like the toddler who kicks the ball just before he picks it up.  Over and Over.)  Shockwave: - Add Knockdown, lower cooldown  (trade Path for Aura and you have a contender)

6) Power Sword (1H) -  Similar situation to the Axe.  Feels good but Oddities.  Sacrilegious to not have Armor Penetration on a Power Sword.  Blade Flurry:  Add Armor Breaking  Scything Strike:  Not bad, Add Armor Breaking 

7) Suppression Shield (1H) - Good Defense.  Discharge: Great AoE. Increase Damage slightly.  Block:  Not sure what Block is supposed to do.  Tool Tip says Defensive Stance...but it behaves more like a reactionary ability.  You actively have to click it right before a blow lands and it will absorb it.  Adding an Animation Break to it could help.  I've thought of a few ways Block could be implemented.  

7A) Make Block a Channel (hold it down) and it uses Focus while you Channel.  Allow movement while channeling.  That way you can advance while underfire or Turtle while waiting on a cooldown.

7B) Make Block a Toggle that adds N% deflect and uses x amount of focus per second while active.  (this plays more off the stance idea)

7C) Make Block a Buff that lasts 2-3 seconds with an 7-10 second cooldown.  

8) Thunder Hammer (2H) -  On paper this thing looks mean. On the Battlefield it is only useful for Single Target destruction.  It does make quick work of an Apostle of Nurgle.  It's just the rest of the room that's a problem.  This 2H I would relegate to a secondary weapon in its current state.  Clear with a ranged weapon then switch to this for armored targets.   Strike:  Again remove the Knockback.  frustrating.  Pulverize:   Add Cone Effect (Wide), Add Shock, Increase Cooldown   Thundering Leap:  Add Stun  Shockwave:  Add Knockdown, Armor Breaking

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That is it for now. Thanks for your time.  You guys are awesome.

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Melee Weapon Critique v0.2.0
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1 year 108 days ago

I wanted to add to the discussion and feedback  here.


Shield

I think the shield is worthless at the moment. The trade off between two handed damage vs the increased defense of 1 handed and board feels poor.

The OP give good advice and suggestions on ways to make it more viable and fun. I agree with mostly all the suggestions and analysis but like to contribute with some more options.

You can make the 1 ability work as a cover for a set amount of time consuming a fixed amount of focus. Similar to option 7c of the OP but different mechanics. That way it will be a force to be reckoned as you will mitigate damage as well as recover some suppression and health. You can adjust the movement speed to a very low turtle stance so it wont became too powerful.

Greatwsword 

It needs a bit more punch to make it a viable contender to the Eviscerator. Another solution, assuming we are using a two handed power sword and not a chunk of iron, will be to add Armor Piercing to the Blade Fury and Armor Breaking to the Crippling Strike. 

The whirlwind attack DoT feels week. You have to hit and kill the enemies afflicted or they will tear you apartar in the time it takes for the DoT to finish them.

Knockback

Due to the speed and mobility in the game I feel that the Knockback abilities in melee weapons are to detrimental. Enough for people to directly avoid such weapons. I think a general suggestion will be to swap Knockback for Knockdown mechanics.

All in all, melee feels very good for an alpha state. Keep up the good work!


This comment was edited 1 year 108 days ago by Pipe
1 year 120 days ago

Good post, brother

1 year 131 days ago

big fan of the toggle ability for deflection boost, rather than the current ability which is really awkward. Nice. 

1 year 131 days ago
+1
Very good and concise feedback, just the way we like it :) We will definitely use this during weapon balancing.
1 year 131 days ago
Mortisrex

Thanks for the answering replies.

I did try the hammer last night, but discovered a significant bug (subject of another thread). Have to admit that it before those issues it was more effective then I had imagined it would be and, that may result in my revising my views on some of the other melee weapons. 

This comment was edited 1 year 131 days ago by Grey Knight
1 year 132 days ago

Can't edit the earlier post, but the skill mapped to 1 is Thundering Leap and the skill mapped to 2 is Shockwave


1 year 132 days ago
Grey Knight

I stay mobile and use the destructible environment quite a lot. If I were to try and stand toe to toe with a Dreadnought or a Hellbrute with their minions, I'm going to die real quick. I pull the minions away, kill them, then come back and I very quickly beat most elites to death. What I can say is I find the 2h hammer to be far more reliant on the activatable skills. If your fighting several enemies, you must line them up and use the ability mapped to the 2 key. If you're being swarmed, or before every fight, or every time it comes off cooldown, you must use the ability mapped to the 1 key (I'll try to edit this later when I can login to the game and get the actual skill names). If you ever want to see it in action, shoot me a steam invite or a game invite and I'll run through an instance or two so you can see how much fun it is (name is the same as here on the forum). Disclaimer: I am using a purple hammer and the majority of my gear is purple.

1 year 132 days ago
Posted by Mortisrex 1 year 132 days ago

I have to say, I absolutely love 2h hammer. I run all of my missions with 2h hammer and dual bolt pistols. I love the added mobility of the leaping attack and the AoE damage/stun is nice. The range attack that hits enemies in a row is nice, just requires a little setup. The LMB attack is pretty nice against the squishies. I do not care for the RMB attack as i find it inefficient. I have not found a 1h/shield combo I would take over my 2h (although, I have ran with a grav pistol and shield as backup before getting my second purple bolt pistol). I find 2h hammer to be the most satisfying of the melee weapons.

Hmm, when I get a decent 2H hammer, I might try that. How doe you find the 2 H hammer fare in the more 'punishing' situations?

1 year 132 days ago

I have to say, I absolutely love 2h hammer. I run all of my missions with 2h hammer and dual bolt pistols. I love the added mobility of the leaping attack and the AoE damage/stun is nice. The range attack that hits enemies in a row is nice, just requires a little setup. The LMB attack is pretty nice against the squishies. I do not care for the RMB attack as i find it inefficient. I have not found a 1h/shield combo I would take over my 2h (although, I have ran with a grav pistol and shield as backup before getting my second purple bolt pistol). I find 2h hammer to be the most satisfying of the melee weapons.

1 year 133 days ago

Again, as you say a personal perspective.


One of my characters uses a power hammer and shield load out, and dual pistols on the other. Most of the time I will use the pistols to take out the opposition, but occasionally I find that the hammer and shield is more effective. For example, when | want to take out a warp gate, because with Strike, I can clear a path to the gate and, as necessary use block to reduce the punishment from all the mobs that it spews forth ( I believe that if you hold the button down it is activated for up to 3 seconds when it triggers again, with the aura surrounding the character showing when it is up). The knock back also comes in handy when I am being swarmed by nurglings and, again want to clear a path to a better spot to trigger Discharge. the combo also works out better for me when taking down dreadnoughts and, those apostles who regenerate unless you stun them, etc.


Whether Strike is on the LMB or RMB does not really bother me but, given how the game is designed to utilise the first 2 skills of a weapon when dual wielding, I can see why the mouse buttons might be fixed; all other keyboard controls can be configured.



1 year 133 days ago
Grey Knight

Thanks for replying.  This post will be worth much more if we have more than just my opinions.  I view all this through my own tunnel vision.  Any perspectives that can help me think of things a different way is good stuff.  I agree there is a lot more content to come that will help with our understanding of what and why.


Knockback is a great effect but having it on your LMB attack is counter productive.  Your LMB attack is generally one of your weakest and quickest attacks.  You LMB down a single weak target with normally two to three hits.  Now with knockback what took two to three hits takes you twice as long because you have to Strike, close in, Strike, close in, Strike.  It's bad enough having to close in on a mob using Disengaging Shot without giving it to them for Free by knocking them back with a basic attack.  


This is amplified with the Power Hammer (1H)  because you only have two abilities.  I can see maybe it working well with an off hand pistol.  Use the Knockback to create distance then Shoot.  Seems tedious when I can just channel Eviscerate on a Chainsword and be done with the mob in two seconds.


_Random Thoughts_

The Power Axe has a faster Scything Strike than the Power Sword?  Less Damage and  Lower Cooldown so you can almost use it as a primary attack.  Which may be the whole idea, wading into a group with the Axe...but it just seems the Axe's Scything Strike would do more damage and have the longer cooldown. 

1 year 133 days ago

Interesting post, but personally I disagree with several of the suggestions, for example amongst others those concerning the power axe and power hammer as well as the block skill of the shield. Also 'Knockback' which I find to be highly effective and adds flavour/immersion to the game.


But, the post does highlight some confusion on my part as to weapon balance. At the moment and, I do accept that it may be because there are many aspects of the game yet to be activated, some weapon types do not seem to be a viable choice, when we do not know what type of mobs we are going to be facing when making deciding what to equip. The skill mix of the various weapons seems to make some a better choice for a load out then others when running solo missions; I do  understand that it could be a design decision with co-op missions in mind.

Obviously if the order of mission selection and inventory selection was reversed much of this alter.