Inquisitor - Martyr

Equipment Stats (Alpha)

14

Here's a few statistics about equipment usage during the latest period of time of alpha. Well, nothing really conclusive, but it might be interesting for you, and it is certainly interesting for us to see how to balance things, to encourage players to use items they don't normally prefer.

There's a lot of tweaking and balancing going on now, this is one of the areas we're looking into. 

Crusader:

Assassin:

Psyker:

So, how do you handle your equipment? What weapons and items do you prefer and why? Can you imagine situations where you might change what items you use, or do you usually stick to what's in your comfort zone?

Let us know in the comments!

This post was edited 170 days ago by Tender
Store Page
Share
14 comments
Inquisitor - Martyr Equipment Stats (Alpha)
Your Thoughts? Please login to place your opinion. Not a member yet? Register here and now!
165 days ago
Useful for further balancing. Snakefist believes that Psyker spells should find their place here, due to their mechanism....
165 days ago
As mentioned the personal void shield is just too strong compared to other options, i felt the same with some of the weapons,

especially the heat mechanic i felt like heat generated way too fast, it would of felt like a better trade off if smaller heated weapons didnt generate as much heat as fast as they do.

The CD on cleave with melee weapons was wierd, im not sure if its meant to work like this but i could basically hold both my R/L mouse buttons and it would alternate between the skills without interuption

165 days ago
Posted by SnakefistIfSo 165 days ago
Useful for further balancing. Snakefist believes that Psyker spells should find their place here, due to their mechanism....
Popularity has limited correlation to balance, especially in an alpha. Popularity usually implies ease of use or fun factor,  not strictly being too strong (although that can be a byproduct of being easy to use).


Typically a better solution towards balance is making the items with less usage better, not strictly by buffing their stats but by making them more applicable to common situations. Alternatively nerfing items that have high popularity is incorrect because you need to understand why they are popular. To balance these items you need to give them a more defined drawback. Reducing their stats is one method but usually that results in another item just replacing it, not promoting diversified item usage.


Balance is tricky, but please do not confuse popularity with balance.

164 days ago
Will have all three classes. But will stick with alpha gear/weapons unless they get a nerf. Normally stick with what I know/enjoy and clear fastest. If the sub classes stay the same I will have one ranged and one(well 2*1hand) for crusader/assassain and a sword/melta pistol pysker.
164 days ago
@HIERO GLYPH‍ 


Snakefist, in His Wisdom, and after almost two decades of balancing experience, will hardly be confused with the terms :)


164 days ago
Posted by SnakefistIfSo 164 days ago
@HIERO GLYPH‍ 


Snakefist, in His Wisdom, and after almost two decades of balancing experience, will hardly be confused with the terms :)


Good to know. Sorry if I came off as harsh but I used to work in game development nearly 20 years ago and I was responsible for feature creep so I was constantly involved with balance. It feels like a lifetime ago but all too often I see developers not understand how to properly balance a game despite having 100x the metrics that we had back then. I could go on for days about all the mistakes modern developers make regarding balance so I am always fearful when I see data usage charts and mention of balance in the same article. Anyway, good to hear you understand the popularity balance trap.
163 days ago
Er...psyker data is hard to understand. Guarantee warp rods are used more than any other, by anybody who knows what they're doing. Not sure which of those items is the warp rods tho.


K.

162 days ago

@HIERO GLYPH‍ 

Oh, nevermind, Snakefist doesn't got offended easily...


It is good indeed to have experienced people on forum, and so is for NeoCore to put stats publicly - even those old Alpha stuff... 

My main motive for asking for spell-info was that I (don't particularly like the way Psyker is executed, and) suspect that some spells are overpowered - fireshield (or what's its name) gives both +attack and +defense and does damage. Therefore it's probably in majority of builds... Dmg spells - are rather similar, probably used in similar amount, and at the same time other defensive spells are massed on char... So they look like weapon + fireshield + 1 damage + remaining defensive... Not too interesting... Also the runes... While it's probably the hardest class to balance I kinda inherently don't like it - it's rather OP in right combination (and in ARPGs, Snakefist plays Casters in 80% cases, so this one comes as disappointment)... 

Hope it will be fixed in beta or later...


@KHALL‍ 

Yes, it is :)


It doesn't include crucial stuff (above), such as spells. What *is* visible is that Melee-Psyker in wayway underpowered or else players would be using more sword. While other weapons - if we presume that they are reasonably balanced, as Hiero Glyph said - can be chosen by personal preferences or general 'coolness' - here *all* Melee combined is used by relative minority.


(And that goes very deep, my current melee Crusader has combined weapon use <5%, yet I never felt it underpowered, and I had several maxed Crusaders with different combinations which I've played from beginning to the end - this was my major method of testing, namely testing balance - which proved to be quite decent for Crusaders and Assassins, so I rarely had comments)


An yes, instead numbers at the end of the names, we should have weapon spell(s) names - could shed some more light...

This comment was edited 162 days ago by SnakefistIfSo
161 days ago
SnakefistIfSo
Eh, I can tell you what spells are most commonly used. Fiery form, divine shot, two buffs from the biomantics field, and whatever pyro you can field at the highest level. The gear and...skills really only let you buff pyro (burn dmg) right now. Biomantics are nice, and there are a few pieces of gear that have +dmg% on them, but it's far easier to do lots of dmg with pyro as things are now. (I know there are lots of people who love biomantics and have strong builds, there's a whole skill tree for heat, there's none for electricity. Easier/more popular don't always mean better.)


But even without that information, just knowing what gear is most popular with psykers is good, would be nice to know what each thing actually translates into, in game.


K.

161 days ago
@KHALL‍ 

Yes, I know, I've leveled a few Psykers to max myself. Core problem is twofold:

1) Blindly following some stupid codex which is extremely ARPG-unfriendly - I've found it and in all the honesty couldn't find good, decent even, spells applicable to caster-like class... Emprah hates that codex Himself and will make it burn - hope that will happen in our time

2) Console-friendly and ARPG-unfriendly number of skills - 5th is open with right gear (dominant choice) and 6th could be with world-skill removal (that may help a bit), but the system in which character is mostly protecting himself passively is condemned by Emprah too


Less core, but still:

1) If everyone is having the same defensives and have them activated the whole time, then they are 'hidden passives' and shouldn't take valuable place that something else could use

2) Rune system is... now I'd wish to say 'interesting', but it's seen way too many times... so, just OK, but still could be much much better - valid choices are but a few, and at lvl20 whole character development stops forever (it happens to other classes, but really, really doesn't have to be like that)


160 days ago

...and to elaborate bit more 'why Snakefist is on verge of hate with Psyker, while He is in Endless Love with most other casters in (A)RPGs'


This is not Pen and Paper. There is no pen. There is no Paper. There is no GM and 'off' skill will never-ever become useful, and neither the rewards for 'alternative and without bloodshed' solutions (though He seriously thinks WH40k fans would rise eyebrows on this.


What there IS are algorithm-balanced opponents in (semi)scripted environment on (semi)random maps. So we need to ADAPT to this scenario (and many players use this word constantly, but never against a codex).


In an example which I'm more familiar with:

Q: Hey, Snakefist, you seem like a kind of Caster-class! Would you like: Animal Friendship, Silence, Message, Darkness?

A: Sure, of course, why not - I'll utilize at least two of them in each 4 spell combination...


Q: What *did* you expect from Psyker, then?

A: Well... more like unnamed Alpha/Beta/Gamma/etc stuff, where I can do whatever I want in certain limits. My imaginary Psyker wielded things like (those *are* from codex):

- Float, Fearful Aura - those look interesting, and could easily fit a Perk so no extra skill place used (perhaps more auras as perks, too - better supporting party like that then through sacrificing runes on actual skill; perhaps a skilltree where auras are tweaked)

- Terrify? As skill opposed/synergistic with Fearful Aura for different build or increased effect?

- Warp time, but NOT as it's done

- Immunity, Living Weapon - perhaps as one spell? current 'melee-psyker' is hardly viable solution due to squishiness, but with occasional burst of melee-wrath and ranged fighting in between - remember, this needs to be on one weapon, viability  increases greatly (and there's other weapon for diverse built)


All examples are given in Snakefist-doesn't-care form of codex numbers. 

Idea of having Perks instead of auras-in-disguise (few exist now, but there could be more added) is nothing short of His Endless Brilliance + then it can be adjusted to greater precision:

- some may never expire (pure Perk-ones)

- some may fluctuate or have additional +/- effect, if accompanied with a skilltree

- skilltrees in general can additionally tune what runes can't or currently can't


For The End - He always imagined Psyker (perhaps because not playing P'n'P) as 'A Force of Nature' - well Warp, and not as a pitiful clerks which does predetermined tasks in allowed value (sorry - that's how it looks now; Warp Heat looks like a Manager who stands behind Our backs and not as balancing The Edge of Madness). 

As such, Psyker could be really, really cool, as if having their armour of choice free Float (which acts exactly like run, but looks way cooler) + spell it is assigned too. Psyker model is uncool, for me at least. (He has, in his Unlimited Coolness, like a million suggestions for improving 'coolness factor' of the various game details - not a time for this now, but in the future).


This was most of the (mostly) negative opinions We have against Psyker as a concept as an execution, and it's of course too late to change anything, and let's wait for beta to finish and to see the reception, and then recapitulate the matter at a proper time, like Q418. We will be here, then. We always were.




170 days ago

All I want is to be able to swap my weapons when I'm dual wielding. I've found a neat Force Sword with my Psyker but it had to be placed in the secondary slot, forcing me to either remap my mouse and keyboard keys or to melee attack the enemies pressing 3 on my keyboard.


How can I successfully purge heretics if I have to remap my keys when I'm in close quarters combat?

170 days ago
Borodon
as a psyker, you should be able to edit your spell and skill loadout in the base I think in the psyker spell book
170 days ago

Thank you for sharing.
Most things i already guessed, like the personal void shield is just better than everything else. period.
But the crusaders thunderhammer doing so mutch better than the powersword? well i guess its just up to playstyle.

/emperor protects