Why WarZone "endless"-level su... fails, and how to fix it

5

We have, in the "endless" WZ lvl, 2 major problems, whereas the 2nd much depends on the first, but not entirely.

1.) The time limit
2.) Difference in levels "rolled" (size difference)


1.) Time time limit:

I see you wanted to make it challenging, and in a way that allows players to fail, but the way you did this is horrible.
Think of running lvl.... 120 or so mission and it would have taken 15:02 to kill all mobs and you fail,
you think that is motivating or rewarding?!
I did not think so.

A little excursion on gaming history:
Look, you missed a lesson here that was already known to Bli$$ard when they released WoW back in 2003 or so.
When they implemented the game, they did not want all the kids to starve in front of their game, or sit there 12h a day and drop out of school, not because they care for the kids, but it would be bad publicity, so they had to input something that makes it at least not look like they want people to grind WoW 24/7, and they did a "rested xp bonus", which was originally designed to be an experience penalty for playing too long, but guess how that would have been received by the players!
So they did in fact an experience penalty but called it a bonus instead, it does the exact same thing but has a positive wording to it.
See the difference?

So instead of "fail if not done within 15 minutes" you should have made it a bonus for doing it under 15 minutes,
you could go from there and give even bigger or more bonuses for doing it under 14 minutes, under 13 minutes and so on...
And players would have to figure out what bonus and time per mission is good or better for their actual goal.
You could put in even more diversity by making the bonus more favour oriented, so aiming for that would max favour,
and aiming for higher lvl missions would max xp/time (would need a different xp scaling than what we have currently also).

Then you could have put in meaningful perks and abilities and not the trash we have there currently, and force players to decide if dumping a lot of favour to buy "more damage mark VI" for xxx favour for this mission to do it in xx minutes would be better or worse than doing a lower level mission with less expensive perks/abilities.

Well, I hope you get the point.


2.) Difference in levels "rolled" (size difference)

You may have noticed that the levels you get are not all exactly the same, and the time needed to complete them may vary by 100% more time needed for the bigger ones comapared to the smallest.

This is not only completely retarded in relation to point (1.), but also in relation to maxing out reward per time spent,
if players can save 5 minutes by re-rolling the mission 2-3 times, then they will do it.

This not-thought-through design forces players to accept and surrender missions more than actually playing them.

How could you have missed that one?! I really can't even imagine.

Don't you test things even a tiny bit before you release them?!

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Why WarZone "endless"-level su... fails, and how to fix it
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1 year 66 days ago
Posted by leverance 1 year 66 days ago
its up to you if you do it. i dont want any leaderboards at all but what i am saying is that its an artificial optional challenge with a little rng factor to give a little bit more balance. you dont like 15 minute time i get it fair enough but that is not a reason to take away that challenge. it is supposed to be a burden. if you take away time then another class/ build combination will suffer from it because f.e. it does not have that dmg mitigation or w/e.


obviously the game will not evolve arround getting as high as possible in warzones. well maybe it will one day but unlikely because the initial plan was to only open them inbetween season which is supposed to be the main aspect of the game afaik. so like i said you have different challenges you can chose to do or not.

why dont you play a build/ class combination that currently can go highest wz level? maybe because you want to play your build. and you reach wz lvl x. now compare that to other people playing this build. you dont compare apples and oranges and say i like the orange so much apples have to be orange too.

personally i would not mind if timer goes away but this will not fix "endless" level as you stated boldly. 

"artificial optional challenge with a little rng factor to give a little bit more balance." ?!?!?

Please refrain from posting on my threads again, you are clearly trolling, and you're not good at it, sorry.

1 year 66 days ago
Posted by Tao12345 1 year 67 days ago
So you say it's ok that the biggest lvls take about twice as long to complete as the smallest ones,

and the 15 minutes timer is perfectly fine,
and that pushing for the highest WZ lvl you can do, you will have to constantly accept and surreder to get a mission you can do in 14:xx instead of twice that time is also perfectly fine?

Granted, that's not going to happen anytime soon for most players, as you'd have to reach -98% or even -99% to actually get in some difficulty, which would be iirc 700+ or so, but that's not the point here.


Just wanting to know if I did understand you right. ;)

its up to you if you do it. i dont want any leaderboards at all but what i am saying is that its an artificial optional challenge with a little rng factor to give a little bit more balance. you dont like 15 minute time i get it fair enough but that is not a reason to take away that challenge. it is supposed to be a burden. if you take away time then another class/ build combination will suffer from it because f.e. it does not have that dmg mitigation or w/e.


obviously the game will not evolve arround getting as high as possible in warzones. well maybe it will one day but unlikely because the initial plan was to only open them inbetween season which is supposed to be the main aspect of the game afaik. so like i said you have different challenges you can chose to do or not.

why dont you play a build/ class combination that currently can go highest wz level? maybe because you want to play your build. and you reach wz lvl x. now compare that to other people playing this build. you dont compare apples and oranges and say i like the orange so much apples have to be orange too.

personally i would not mind if timer goes away but this will not fix "endless" level as you stated boldly. 

1 year 67 days ago
Posted by leverance 1 year 67 days ago
well i disagree on both points.


the first point about the timer : how rewarding is it if you barely beat it at 14:59 min? so it goes both ways. whatever the "challenge" is there is of course a downside to it. there is a challenge ( tho buggy ) where time does not matter which is unholy cathedral. 


its kind of the same for point number two. its random for everyone and again is supposed to be a challenge. if you opt out of challenges does not mean they have to go away in my point of view. i assume a deflec crusader has the problem on map with big rooms and lots of walking. while this is bad for a slow character it is good for speed psyker or assassin to dodge out of things. for them small rooms are tough. so i guess having it random is a good way of balance in that case.

so your ideas wont fix wz for me and alot of others i'm afraid.

So you say it's ok that the biggest lvls take about twice as long to complete as the smallest ones,

and the 15 minutes timer is perfectly fine,
and that pushing for the highest WZ lvl you can do, you will have to constantly accept and surreder to get a mission you can do in 14:xx instead of twice that time is also perfectly fine?

Granted, that's not going to happen anytime soon for most players, as you'd have to reach -98% or even -99% to actually get in some difficulty, which would be iirc 700+ or so, but that's not the point here.


Just wanting to know if I did understand you right. ;)

1 year 67 days ago
well i disagree on both points.


the first point about the timer : how rewarding is it if you barely beat it at 14:59 min? so it goes both ways. whatever the "challenge" is there is of course a downside to it. there is a challenge ( tho buggy ) where time does not matter which is unholy cathedral. 


its kind of the same for point number two. its random for everyone and again is supposed to be a challenge. if you opt out of challenges does not mean they have to go away in my point of view. i assume a deflec crusader has the problem on map with big rooms and lots of walking. while this is bad for a slow character it is good for speed psyker or assassin to dodge out of things. for them small rooms are tough. so i guess having it random is a good way of balance in that case.

so your ideas wont fix wz for me and alot of others i'm afraid.

1 year 70 days ago
I agree on both points, good arguments and point 1 sounds great. A bit harsh here and there but I do get the frustration...