Things that shouldn't be in the game

20
  • shotgun Ogryn packs (GL taking them out during assassination missions as MELEE)
  • slow opening doors
  • locking doors
  • stupid minions that take 1 minute to teleport into a locked room
  • ridiculous terrain that blocks off massive parts of the map and forces you to take a 1 minute detour around it
  • ridiculous terrain that forces you to take a very specific path in order to reach a bunch of enemies excitedly unloading everything they've got into your body
  • ridiculous terrain/objects that don't let you FLY (jetpack) over them
  • inoc/crits mission modifiers
This post was edited 74 days ago by treecargarage
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Things that shouldn't be in the game
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74 days ago
Chacumbele
The ebb and flow is already in the game - the enemies are separated into groups in rooms and corridors with mostly regular, perfectly fine, doors.  Clear a room, loot a chest , walk through to next section, next wave etc.  There's lulls and more intense parts of the action with groups of enemies spaced out, with some trash and then some tougher enemies etc.   Having a certain door that arbitrarily says "nope, you got to stand here for about 10 seconds while this animation runs" is not good design - in my opinion it's not design at all, they just threw a bunch of stuff in there without thinking too much about it.  Anyway I'm pretty sure they weren't thinking "oh yeah we really need some negative space here".  It's not that big a deal, but it's one of a lot of little things that create annoyance for no reason.  Slow doors are heresy!
74 days ago
-2

Btw, to the soy boy downvoting all my posts, thank you. You're just drawing attention to them. Keep it up, and never stop helping me to spread the word.

lololol

Shoutouts to Nerfcore for making the thumbs down that beautiful orange color. Really makes all my posts pop.

This comment was edited 74 days ago by treecargarage
74 days ago
-3
Posted by Toadbat 74 days ago
Just because you don't play tactically does not mean that tactics cannot be used. And, maybe if you used tactics the items you raised wouldn't be issues for you.
I was #1 last week...I don't have issues with the game (which is braindead and unrewarding to play).
74 days ago
+1
treecargarage
Just because you don't play tactically does not mean that tactics cannot be used. And, maybe if you used tactics the items you raised wouldn't be issues for you.
74 days ago
-3
And I just want to say that we need to stop with this "tactical" bullshit. This game is not even remotely tactical. When I play, I just jump around the map, and hold left click + right click + 1 + 2 (literally...) until everything is dead.
74 days ago
-3

Atmosphere is supposed to emotional (in a good way). The only emotions I feel when encountering the stuff I listed are anger and frustration.

Also, D3 is WAAAAAAY more popular/successful than Martyr. So whatever they did, it obviously worked.

This comment was edited 74 days ago by treecargarage
74 days ago
+3

I just want to say that I don't agree with most of the proposals on the OP.


Some of the suggestions remind me of those made by players for games like Diablo 3 in order to make the game "flow" better (i.e. to make it so that you could engage a continuous stream of monsters without gaps, changes of pace nor player approach), and implementing them degenerated that game (and many others) into a glorified speed run / arcade.


Going for this approach may appear fun for a while, but it totally destroys an ARPG mechanics and atmosphere. Getting rid of lulls, negative space (e.g. those doors some find annoying), and pacing modulators just makes those kind of games feel like even more simplistic shoot-em-ups or mobile games.


Furthermore, this philosophy runs pretty much opposite of WH40K Martyr/Prophecy core mechanics, as well as its on focus on atmosphere, and I quite enjoy the game - mainly for those reasons. In fact, I'd agree to changes in the other direction - more compact, intense encounters, slower, more analytical pace with more opportunity cost actions, more tactical elements, etc.


I do agree that you should be able to jetpack-jump (as Assault Armor Crusader) or vault (as an agile Assasin) over cover/small-ish obstacles.

This comment was edited 74 days ago by Chacumbele
74 days ago
+1
Toadbat
There's warzone missions with crits disabled, you can't abandon them if you want to do it all. It's a pain to open an intel with crits disabled, and then have to load the mission to abandon it.  It's not about it being to hard, but too sloooow.. it's about QoL. 99% of the game allows crits, so a non-crit build is gimping yourself for the majority of the game for that 1% where you would benefit.  I don't want to have to reroll everything for the sake of a few missions.  I might change to grinder perk and maybe even change some socketed crit strength for 30% base damage to do a crits disabled mission, but it's not fun, it's more like "ok let's get this over with".  It's disabling a major build mechanic that leads to lots of other things, and the end result is a long slow dull mission.


While we're having a rant I also add, having played through the campaign a few times with different characters, I feel the same way about "crimson wanderer" missions.. cool novelty at first, but really it's got no place in such a game.  A separate game with that in might be good, but not in this type of game where it is all about building your character and gear etc.

74 days ago
Jason Yang
Yeah, no I'll keep playing this. Thanks. 


And if people want to abandon a mission just because it is too hard for them, that is their prerogative. It is part of the game mechanics and it makes sense that you should be about to opt out of missions that you wouldn't consider fun. The fact that you can abandon the mission really shows me that neocore was thinking about people who have different ideas about what is fun. So, there's no need to change the tarot results, if you don't like them go ahead and reroll. 


I often reroll my gear.


Sorry, I couldn't quite understand the point of the last paragraph or what part of my responses that it pertains to.


74 days ago
+1
Toadbat
then go play dark soul or cat mario, enjoy your unpredicable sudden death,


(should make map reset every time you die, to make you enjoy more).


tell you something that non-crit will actually casue:

 people will have their non-crit build to do it, or only build non-crit character,

 if non-crit build can be powerful enough.

other wise, they will simplely abandone mission.


it just like chance to destroy this mission selection.

a potential for lose all you put on gambling.

why do not try reroll all you gear for such gambling fun?


the terran and object do add more war hammer 40k style,

but such thing should not influnce end game experience

on fight, since we have is a arpg for now.

(i do not have many problem about this yet, but some 

  out door terran do extend the time on walking)


74 days ago
AuretiousTaak

1: we know ogryn use their speciall weapon, but when we talk about game design,

    there is no use to pick some nerdy lore words.

    we have  a inquisitor who can fight plenty chaos marine with daemon at same time,

    so what?

2: something like door open could be faster, at least for later game like VC or warzone

3: the terrain/objects, this is arpg, not some tactical game, so called “strategy” game

     will have much longer period per mission and much higher and stable reward, 

     more detail you can have hand on, not some cover that can be destroy by 1 simple

    charge

4: something for no innoc and no crit is kind pointless, they are probably avialable,

    but not even worth to try. no crit build usually doing very shity damage and have 

    huge problem on recovery. this 1 mod can make mission 10 times hard with no

    reward, if you make this mod profitable, then every one will go for avialbe no 

   crit build.

75 days ago
What Giamantis said...most of the stuff I mentioned is just annoying crap that ruins the flow of the game.
75 days ago
+1

The background objects are annoying sometimes, I'm with treecar on that one.  Large circular objects with square collison boxes, infested stations getting stuck on nurgle crap repeatedly, urban maps with walls you demolish but still can't move over where they were etc etc. I like the game enough to keep playing but damn it's frustrating sometimes.  Slow opening doors too, no need at all. I'm not trying to rush thorugh every map as fast as possible, it's just an unnecessary delay.  And disabling crits is crap too - it doesn't make it any more challenging, just more tedious.

75 days ago
+2
Posted by treecargarage 76 days ago
-shotgun ogryn packs are very obnoxious at higher difficulties for melee characters

-slow opening doors offer nothing...they are there just to annoy...would u say patience is a virtue if Nerfcore added a 5 minute countdown each time u started the game? No? I thought patience is a virtue? Slow opening doors are totally useless.

-there is nothing tactical about the terrain...it's just poorly designed...you can't even TELL where the hell ur supposed to go...THAT'S the biggest problem with it. Also, the game is not challenging...no high-level technical skill or high-level thought is required.

-the inoc/crit modifiers don't make sense in a game that makes inocs and crits essential to being strong. The risk/reward would only make sense IF these two modifiers (and reflect damage...forgot that pos one) were to increase the rewards significantly. Otherwise, it's stupid to have them along side other modifiers that are a breeze for anyone.

Also, you must be a masochist if you think the things I listed make the game fun.

If by obnoxious you mean they are too difficult for you to engage, try engaging them differently or with different perks/passives/gear.


I don't understand how a couple of second opening door graphic relates to a five minute countdown. Personally I don't find them annoying and was just trying to give you another perspective. It seems, from your comments, that you get a degree of frustration if there is anything in the game that slows you down.


The terrain in any conflict is both tactical and strategic. Either the actual use of positioning, movement and skill use (tactics) or the choice of perks/passives/gear (strategy) have an impact on how to solve any engagements and different terrain can, or should, influence both. Also, there are various ways of increasing the difficulty if you don't find the game challenging.


Neither inoculators nor high crit stats are even close to required to be strong or complete any scenario. Again, the loss of them provides additional challenges that, at least for me, enhance my enjoyment of the game. Additionally, the tarot cards that impose those restrictions do provide rewards.


I don't think I am a masochist. I do enjoy the game, I do have some things I would like to see changed but they are mostly quality of life issues, some small/medium bugs, and additional content. Anyway, I hope you either find a way to enjoy this game or find one you do enjoy.


Cheers.

76 days ago
-2
Posted by Wolfilein 76 days ago

I can only agree to 1 1/2 of your points:


- Stupid minions that wont teleport or spawn slowly.

When talking about enemys teleporting in, yes its a bit annoying but on the other hand not every build can deal with a gas-trap, a locked-door and 20-30 horde enemys spawning instantly. Considering that these traps should be "manageable" for new players and chars in the early levels.

Slightly related: I had serveral cases where my tach-adpet was locked in a room with enemys spawning and my kastelan-bots where idling outside of that room while i was beeing slaughtered inside. This needs some tweeking.


- Most of the terrain issues

Not all terrain is destructible and even if it is a desctructible piece, they sometimes cannot be walked over/through even when destroyed and not visible anymore. Some other terrain (mostly nurgle structures) are not traversable. A 15cm high and 25cm wide pustule makes my char go round it while he/she can walk over a 3m high mountain of corpses.

Also certain skill target terrain-objects insted of enemys when the object is closer. I am talking about the annoying aim-assist that cannot be disabled.


The other points havent bothered me that much during my 600+ hours of gameplay. No-crit-missions could be tweaked a little bit. I usually ignore them when they are +6 and higher with most of my chars.

-the terrain/objects are VERY annoying some of the time...actually, more than some of the time. There is too much shit on some maps. And some of the shit that's there has too big a hit box. And don't get me started on Nerfcore's mountains/hills/dirt mounds...ugh.

This comment was edited 76 days ago by treecargarage
76 days ago
-3
Posted by AuretiousTaak 76 days ago

                            

                                    

  • shotgun Ogryn packs (GL taking them out during assassination missions)
  • slow opening doors
  • locking doors
  • stupid minions that take 1 minute to teleport into a locked room
  • ridiculous terrain that blocks off massive parts of the map and forces you to take a 1 minute detour around it
  • ridiculous terrain that forces you to take a very specific path in order to reach a bunch of enemies excitedly unloading everything they've got into your body
  • ridiculous terrain/objects that don't let you FLY (jetpack) over them
  • inoc/crits mission modifiers

                            


                            

Ogryns are not a4rmed with shotguns, they are armed with ripper guns. It is canon and has been for ovber 30 years irl. Use the cover system, kite them, learn to play the game and the mechanics of the game. This isn'ta point and click to win game.

slow doors and locking doors are mechanics that make it harder for you to just ebat everything. Sojmetimes they are annoying but most of the time, they are just fine.

Teleporting minions - ok, so most of them teleport into gas filled rooms, honestly that gas shopuld be doing a thousand times more damage that way you are focused on eitehr getti9ng the door open and venti9ng or dealing with the minions TPing in to kill you, not casually nuking them then escaping.

ALL TERRAIN IS DESTRUCTIBLE.

DESTROY THE TERRAIN.

WALK THROUGH TERRAIN.

PROBLEMS SOLVED.

Don't play missions with modifiers that don't cater to your softcore casual playstyle. No crits is perfectly viabble. No Innoc, also viable, even at +10 missions. You have to think about the game but that's the whole point of this game and whyy people play it for extended periods of time, unlike many other ARPG's.


We can all sum up your post and complaints as follows:

GET GUD.

-Cover system...lol...and kite them? How? I'm melee, genius. And this very much IS a point and click game. Virtually 0 real skill required. Also, another lol at telling me to learn to play the game. You must be new...

-slow/locking doors don't make ANYTHING more difficult. They are just obnoxious and server no purpose.

-all terrain is destructible? So massive mountain ranges in a desert map are destructible? Cool to know, thx bro. Walk through Nerfcore's mountains? Cool story, bro.

-ROFL @ calling my playstyle softcore/casual. This game is EZ PZ. The stuff I mentioned isn't "hardcore". It's just bad.

-"GET GUD" LOLOLOLOL you really are clueless...

This comment was edited 76 days ago by treecargarage
76 days ago
-2
Posted by Toadbat 77 days ago

I can't agree with your suggestions. At least most of them, I would like the jetpack to be a bit more versatile, but I also can understand balance and game control reasons why it's the way it is. And, better construct ai and placement would be nice.


  • shotgun Ogryn packs (GL taking them out during assassination missions)
    • I don't have a problem with these.
  • slow opening doors
    • patience is a virtue
  • locking doors
  • traps are part of the challenge
  • stupid minions that take 1 minute to teleport into a locked room
    • I am not sure what you mean by taking 1 minute to teleport. I do think that when you are locked in a room that your constructs should be chewing/shooting/pounding through the door.
  • ridiculous terrain that blocks off massive parts of the map and forces you to take a 1 minute detour around it
    • really, patience.
  • ridiculous terrain that forces you to take a very specific path in order to reach a bunch of enemies excitedly unloading everything they've got into your body
    • game scenario control allows those who create the scenario to provide challenges that sometimes require more than blindly running into a large group of enemies and mowing them down.
  • ridiculous terrain/objects that don't let you FLY (jetpack) over them
    • Half and half here for me, there are some objects that I think we should be able to get past, but having some that are impassable is needed in order to control the scenarios so as to make them challenging.
  • inoc/crits mission modifiers
    • I actually find these to be awesome. They make using the tarot a risk, which is what I think it should be.

Removing the things you mentioned would seriously reduce the fun of this game for me.

-shotgun ogryn packs are very obnoxious at higher difficulties for melee characters

-slow opening doors offer nothing...they are there just to annoy...would u say patience is a virtue if Nerfcore added a 5 minute countdown each time u started the game? No? I thought patience is a virtue? Slow opening doors are totally useless.

-there is nothing tactical about the terrain...it's just poorly designed...you can't even TELL where the hell ur supposed to go...THAT'S the biggest problem with it. Also, the game is not challenging...no high-level technical skill or high-level thought is required.

-the inoc/crit modifiers don't make sense in a game that makes inocs and crits essential to being strong. The risk/reward would only make sense IF these two modifiers (and reflect damage...forgot that pos one) were to increase the rewards significantly. Otherwise, it's stupid to have them along side other modifiers that are a breeze for anyone.

Also, you must be a masochist if you think the things I listed make the game fun.

76 days ago
+1

I can only agree to 1 1/2 of your points:


- Stupid minions that wont teleport or spawn slowly.

When talking about enemys teleporting in, yes its a bit annoying but on the other hand not every build can deal with a gas-trap, a locked-door and 20-30 horde enemys spawning instantly. Considering that these traps should be "manageable" for new players and chars in the early levels.

Slightly related: I had serveral cases where my tach-adpet was locked in a room with enemys spawning and my kastelan-bots where idling outside of that room while i was beeing slaughtered inside. This needs some tweeking.


- Most of the terrain issues

Not all terrain is destructible and even if it is a desctructible piece, they sometimes cannot be walked over/through even when destroyed and not visible anymore. Some other terrain (mostly nurgle structures) are not traversable. A 15cm high and 25cm wide pustule makes my char go round it while he/she can walk over a 3m high mountain of corpses.

Also certain skill target terrain-objects insted of enemys when the object is closer. I am talking about the annoying aim-assist that cannot be disabled.


The other points havent bothered me that much during my 600+ hours of gameplay. No-crit-missions could be tweaked a little bit. I usually ignore them when they are +6 and higher with most of my chars.

76 days ago
-2

                            

                                    

  • shotgun Ogryn packs (GL taking them out during assassination missions)
  • slow opening doors
  • locking doors
  • stupid minions that take 1 minute to teleport into a locked room
  • ridiculous terrain that blocks off massive parts of the map and forces you to take a 1 minute detour around it
  • ridiculous terrain that forces you to take a very specific path in order to reach a bunch of enemies excitedly unloading everything they've got into your body
  • ridiculous terrain/objects that don't let you FLY (jetpack) over them
  • inoc/crits mission modifiers

                            


                            

Ogryns are not a4rmed with shotguns, they are armed with ripper guns. It is canon and has been for ovber 30 years irl. Use the cover system, kite them, learn to play the game and the mechanics of the game. This isn'ta point and click to win game.

slow doors and locking doors are mechanics that make it harder for you to just ebat everything. Sojmetimes they are annoying but most of the time, they are just fine.

Teleporting minions - ok, so most of them teleport into gas filled rooms, honestly that gas shopuld be doing a thousand times more damage that way you are focused on eitehr getti9ng the door open and venti9ng or dealing with the minions TPing in to kill you, not casually nuking them then escaping.

ALL TERRAIN IS DESTRUCTIBLE.

DESTROY THE TERRAIN.

WALK THROUGH TERRAIN.

PROBLEMS SOLVED.

Don't play missions with modifiers that don't cater to your softcore casual playstyle. No crits is perfectly viabble. No Innoc, also viable, even at +10 missions. You have to think about the game but that's the whole point of this game and whyy people play it for extended periods of time, unlike many other ARPG's.


We can all sum up your post and complaints as follows:

GET GUD.

77 days ago

I can't agree with your suggestions. At least most of them, I would like the jetpack to be a bit more versatile, but I also can understand balance and game control reasons why it's the way it is. And, better construct ai and placement would be nice.


  • shotgun Ogryn packs (GL taking them out during assassination missions)
    • I don't have a problem with these.
  • slow opening doors
    • patience is a virtue
  • locking doors
  • traps are part of the challenge
  • stupid minions that take 1 minute to teleport into a locked room
    • I am not sure what you mean by taking 1 minute to teleport. I do think that when you are locked in a room that your constructs should be chewing/shooting/pounding through the door.
  • ridiculous terrain that blocks off massive parts of the map and forces you to take a 1 minute detour around it
    • really, patience.
  • ridiculous terrain that forces you to take a very specific path in order to reach a bunch of enemies excitedly unloading everything they've got into your body
    • game scenario control allows those who create the scenario to provide challenges that sometimes require more than blindly running into a large group of enemies and mowing them down.
  • ridiculous terrain/objects that don't let you FLY (jetpack) over them
    • Half and half here for me, there are some objects that I think we should be able to get past, but having some that are impassable is needed in order to control the scenarios so as to make them challenging.
  • inoc/crits mission modifiers
    • I actually find these to be awesome. They make using the tarot a risk, which is what I think it should be.

Removing the things you mentioned would seriously reduce the fun of this game for me.