So let's talk Weapons

3

Weapons are the bread and butter of game-play verity at the moment. Something I'm entirely fine with. But anyone playing will rapidly discover that at the time of this writing, there are some issues.


Lets start with whats just plain weird.

Multi-Melta, Melta and Inferno Pistol. Why aren't their attacks at least Armor Breaking if not outright Armor Penetration tagged? These are the premiere anti-armor weapons in 40k. Their biggest issue is usually range and in the close quarters fighting we're doing that's not a huge deal. So they do need some limits. That is why they're heat system weapons and I'm fine with that. But these need to be go to anti-armor tools. If I took a shield and Inferno Pistol, I can't even get an AP or AB attack at all, that's odd.

Okay, lets move on to some things that definitely work right now.

Power Swords aren't AB or AP... Okay, this one I'm willing to accept for balance reasons. Power Sword is functioning pretty darn well at the moment and Great Sword is definitly a good melee weapon as is. It's a little odd they're not AB at least, but gameplay comes first. The combo tag might need a little adjustment, (one less swing to trigger perhaps) since it's rare I get to see it work for me, but it's always a cool moment.

Lasguns use the heat system. Okay, that's a design decision I don't particularly like, but It's not a big deal, since the Lasgun and Laspistol are definitely functional. A pair of solid generalist weapons here and other then the weirdness of the continuous beam effect on the Lasgun, it's all good.

Thunder Hammer. It's a two handed, but between having a leap (very necessary in such a ranged heavy combat environment) hitting hard and being AP on it's attacks, I think the Hammer is in a good place at the moment. I wish I could tell if the debuff to physical resistance on it's 4 attack worked though.

Power Hammer (IIRC that's the name, it's the 1 handed hammer) Again, this is in a pretty good place at the moment, it's the go to 1 hand AP melee and that's a fine place for it to crack skulls from.

Bolter and Bolt Pistol. Oh man, if any weapons are in the sweet spot right now, it's these. They're not as good at mowing down fleshy targets as autoguns/pistols, but they have AB options and are solid generalist tools. I think a slight adjustment might be good for the Bolter itself though. The 'Frag Shells' ability seems out of place here on the rifle. Perhaps a Penetrating Kracken Round ability would work better. At least if there's not going to be a separate Stalker pattern Bolter. (IE Bolt Sniper) It feels weird to have the best Bolt AoE attack on the basic Bolter. The Pistols burst works nicely by contrast.

Plasma Rifle. It's slower then most, but it hits reasonably solid and provides decent anti-armor option. Seems to be in okay shape over all at the moment.

Heavy Flamer. This really is one of the best Heavy Weapons at the moment. You trade range for raw firepower and a cone of 'K thx die' that turns flesh to ash in record time. Plus it's heat management is loose enough to use but tight enough I've had to work to manage it during frantic engagements. That's where you want it and this is a solid tool. I also appreciate that I won't end up burning myself or my fellow operatives with it.

Heavy Plasma. This right here? This is the gold standard for a heavy weapon to me now. Anti-Armor tool, has bombardment ability, reasonable heat management and increased firing rate in rapid mode if you keep firing it. It's accurate enough that your not entirely sure on rapid fire if you'll hit at longer ranges, but you'll be throwing so much Armor Breaking plasma down range it's fine.

So what needs some work?

Autogun and AutoPistol. They just don't seem to have a job. If it's flesh a bolt weapon works just as well and they're bad vs armor, so a Lasweapon does better there. The magazine capacity isn't so much higher then a Bolt weapon and we don't get a heavy autogun (or Heavy Stubber) for really cranking out firepower by volume.

Shotgun. It's literally melee range, only effective on flesh, not automatic, can't be fired on the run, has a small magazine size (burst eats about half the magazine) and it's damage isn't enough to make up for it. I can't think of any reason to take it... ever. This needs to either absolutely vaporize enemies or have workable range it can strike at. even just being a large mag and full auto weapon would give me an argument for using it.

Multi-Melta. It's heat capacity use is abysmal, its damage per shot isn't notably better then the basic Melta and it suffers the same odd problem as the other Melta weapons against armor.

Heavy Bolter. Lack of accuracy, lack of per shot damage and lack of workable AoE fire mode combine into a mess. Moving the Frag Shells here might work, giving it better accuracy or just plain letting it hit harder would help. Even making it's heavier bolts all AB could give me an argument for why someone would use it. Right now I've got nothing and that's sad.

Chainsword and Evicerator. Two big problems here as I see it. Firstly, I can stick this in someones gut and hold down the trigger (so to speak) and then they just walk out of it, because there's no hit-stun beyond the first damage increment. That makes the whole 'hold down to saw' thing a detriment rather than an asset. Secondly, they just don't do competitive damage with the Power Sword and Great Sword, their direct competition. Due to having fleshbane, if the damage base was the same as the power sword/great sword, then they'd have a role in flesh targets. But this 'roughly 60% of the damage' when you only get +30% from fleshbane just doesn't cut it.

Power Axe. It lacks damage, swing speed, combo ability, all it has over the Power Sword is being AB. Which frankly just isn't enough to justify it being on my weapon setup. Poor thing needs something, be it more damage per swing or having wide arc swings to default or a knockdown shock-wave or something.


Anything too powerful?

Gravity Gun and Gravpistol. Holy Emperor on Terra, these annihilate armor and crush (literally) anything else. They make a mockery of Melta weaponry and are better vs flesh and armor then Plasma. This needs adjusting guys. Either Melta weapons get fixed or Grav weapons need toning down some. Especially egregious is how much more heat efficient they are to Melta weapons and even Plasma.

Grenade Launcher. I hate listing this here, both because it's been toned down already and because it's hilarious fun to detonate heretics with it. But compared to nearly any other weapon for fighting Flesh, it's the clear winner. Longer range then the Heavy Flamer and more utility via mines and air-burst shells. It's like having a pocket mortar and like the Heavy Flamer, no risk of blue on blue.

Other Notes

Duel Welding in general needs some work. Some of it's bugs (the animation bug for melee or shield and a pistol for example) and some of it is user interface (Using 2 bolt pistols? You can't fire the off hand one, even if the main hand is empty.) but the potential to have melee and ranged at once is definitely something I'm looking forward to once it's working properly.

The Missile strike on the armor seems pretty underwhelming at the moment. Not sure how to fix that since it's equipment, but compared to a turret and a jump pack, this needs something, maybe if it was an AP option that would help.

Grenades are really limited and take forever to throw, combined with the fact enemies react when you start the animation, I find myself ignoring them most of the time. I can't open a fight with a grenade unless it's with the Grenade Launcher and that's unfortunate.

Weapon Sets. I like that we have 2, though it's weird not having inventory access on mission, I'm willing to work with that as a design decision. The whole 'all cool-downs including grenades and armor ability start again' when you swap thing is hopefully on the way out. Because it's a major impact on game-play I find an annoyance.


So that's a pretty exhaustive summery of weapons and my views on them for the moment. I think the basics are good, but polish and a few passes of changes will make this into something better. It's great how much verity I can have to hand on a single character through this.

This post was edited 1 year 230 days ago by Sorain
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3 comments
So let's talk Weapons
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1 year 220 days ago
+1
I agree with all the points of the weapons! Great post which makes it very easy for the devs to see where they should set in.


Weapon swapping is an issue, not sure what the deal is with the GC when swapping.

I've also suggested that we get to equip the items we find during a mission (like a mission inventory) but not use any items in our vault inventory (back at base). This would enable us to switch out items we just found that are better than what we were currently wearing, but the randomness will make it so that we don't have the option to just equip whatever suits our fancy.

1 year 229 days ago
+2
Posted by Vikingvesk 1 year 230 days ago
I agree with almost everything on this list with two exceptions! 


Las guns and their big brothers use energy cells to function.  So I just see the heat meter as the charge cell.
More a fluff thing then actually a huge difference. Change in the description of it would be awesome!

The weapon set swapping in game.
This is a feature and not a bug.
I can understand it can be annoying not to equip that awesome purple flamer you just found but i like the fact we need to think about what enemies we will encounter and plan a bit ahead in terms of what weapons we need to take on a mission.

Otherwise spot on and i hope the devs will read this! 

As to Las weapons and cells, the heat system is fundimentally diffrent from having to reload. But like I said, I don't think that's a huge deal. The devs want a clear 'Solid/reload Energy/heat' setup and I'll deal with it. It's a nitpick.


I never said the weapon set swapping was a bug. But this design as it is right now has some gameplay impacts I'm not sure are healthy. For example, a player is essentially forced to pick an AP or at least AB capable weapon in one of those slots. This means that anything lacking those is severely disadvantaged, especially combined with the fact fleshbane is essentially unneeded at the moment. The only 'neutral' weapons are Lasweapons and fighting a dreadnought with one is a chore (though not a mind numbing slog like with, say an Autogun.) while an AP or AB weapon on flesh works just fine.


As an addendum, I think Melee needs something, perhaps move speed bonus to close the distance, because I've found melee is high risk with little reward right now.


I agree that knowing what we're fighting (in general terms at least) before we go in is definitely a help. I'm just paranoid that I'll end up fighting something in armor when I've got only unarmored capable equipment, because as I mentioned the alternative is not a big deal but killing a marine or Dreadnought with flesh only weapons is a fething grind.


Nice to see someone see's most of what I see here, and here's hoping the devs take this feedback into consideration in time.

1 year 230 days ago
+1
I agree with almost everything on this list with two exceptions! 


Las guns and their big brothers use energy cells to function.  So I just see the heat meter as the charge cell.
More a fluff thing then actually a huge difference. Change in the description of it would be awesome!

The weapon set swapping in game.
This is a feature and not a bug.
I can understand it can be annoying not to equip that awesome purple flamer you just found but i like the fact we need to think about what enemies we will encounter and plan a bit ahead in terms of what weapons we need to take on a mission.

Otherwise spot on and i hope the devs will read this!