Rants/complaints/feedback from new player

23

My complaints/feedback/bitching, in no particular order. I should note that I'm playing a Heavy Weapons Crusader.

Items other than armor and weapons are pointless, interchangeable statsticks with no intrinsic value or usefulness. What's the difference between a Signum and an Eye Implant? Absolutely goddamn nothing, that's what. They're just statsticks that hold random enchants of negligible value with no rhyme or reason. Why do my Frag Grenades give me hit points? Items should be consolidated into weapons, armor, and a few wargear slots with items that have some meaning to them. You want to have Eye Implants? Fine. They should give me things like crit chance or a chance to spot traps or increased weapon range, but they should do SOMETHING that seems even remotely relevant to what they are.

The levels are pointlessly large, empty, and repetitive and it takes entirely too damn long to traverse them. For the love of the Emperor give us a damn sprint function. If you don't want us to have an escape then make it not usable in combat, but walking through the levels is a literal tedious slog.

Weapon switching should not start with abilities on CD. It means you will NEVER switch weapons in combat unless your other weapon is overheating. It robs players of the ability to use the appropriate tactical tool for the job, which is why weapon switching exists in the first place. The only time I've switched weapons in combat is if my primary is overheating and I need to shoot things still, and then all I can do is spam left mouse.

In my first mission, I didn't realize that I had limited Frag Grenades until I was impotently hammering 3 and nothing happened. Only then did I see the absurdly faint 0 indicating I was out. Then when I found a supply chest I noticed the number. Change the color so it's actually visible.

Why does my 4 ability have both a resource and a CD? Also the resource is useless as it's used ONLY for the 4 ability. Why even have it? Just have it on CD.

Crafting seems pointless if I can only craft Rare items. Also please remove the damn crafting times. What is this, SWTOR? I have to wait an hour to craft my Demolition Armor only for it to have utterly useless enchants then have to wait another hour to basically reroll it? It's pointlessly frustrating. There's already a resource cost to crafting so you're gated in that way, don't also time gate arbitrarily.

What in the Warp do all the damn numbers mean on items? Do Attack Power and Defense Power actually DO anything or are they basically just ilvls? When I do item comparisons I get +/- offense/defense and those numbers seem completely pulled out of someone's ass. They relate to nothing concrete and might just be RNG results for all I know and for all the good they do me. They confer no useful information whatsoever.

Killing enemies is pointless and provides no intrinsic benefit to me other than them being obstacles to mission success. This is an ARPG. I should WANT to kill enemies. I should want to kill them because 1) it should be fun (it's not) and 2) because I should get something for it (I don't). I'll put the fun issue aside for now because that's entirely subjective, but enemies should give individual XP and have better drop rates. If I see a pack of enemies that I don't strictly need to kill I should WANT to kill them because they provide me with incremental bonuses (XP) and a chance for something good (rare drop). Right now there is zero motivation to kill enemies other than that it's necessary. That's a terrible characteristic for an ARPG to have.

Inoculators without red slots are the single most pointless item ever put into any video game ever (yes, I'm being hyperbolic, so sue me). They are instant vendor/salvage trash. Who in the hell would want a healing item that can't heal? The combat bonuses that the yellow slots provide are laughably pathetic and come at WAY too high a cost to ever justify using. The green bonuses might be useful if they didn't come at such a high cost. Two red slot Inoculators are the only ones worth using. Now if we could have multiple Inoculators, that might be something. One for healing and one that's basically a combat stim. Then the other color slots would have value.

Cover is a worthless mechanic other than to recover HP/Suppression Resistance because you can't do sustained damage while in cover. It's far more efficient to just stand in the open, take hits, but dish them out in return, then duck into cover when the enemies are dead to recover HP/SR. Fighting from cover is inefficient and counterproductive.

That's all for now. I'm sure I'll think of more.

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1 year 81 days ago
+1

Also a new pleer and by gripes are complitely different.
But i comment on couple of points raised in previous posts.
1. Weapons starting on CD. It's normal for ARPG. If you want fast-acting back-up weapon - put one with fast CD on second slot. If you want two powerful weapons - deal with CD. It's simple balance.

2. Exp and Drops. 
a) Not hunting mobs for advancement of personal power is fresh idea for ARPG, makes it more story-driven, than killing-driven. It's a good thing. BUT. For it to work, we need less kill-everyone type missions. We are inqusitor. We have minions for that. Give me more objective-type missons. We putting our boots on the ground for a reason. Players will still kill everyone, but it's question of focus.
b) Drops. Dropping giant two-handed sword from cloud of flies is time-honored tradition, put if devs want to tune that all drops are appropriate for it's source - more power to them. HOWEVER. Lore-wise, IMHO inquisitor having _money_ as resource makes little sense. To inquistor to have acquire thing it has to be in first place and can he apply his influence on person holding it. He's not bying new stuff at the mall in exchange for pieces of paper. But i understand that game needs "money" recourse. SO. What drops from enemies are pieces of intel, curios, expendable materials that can be bartered for favours. And colleced value of such favours are our "money".


Now, on personal impressions:

  • What bothers me more that anything else, is limited field of view in enclosed locations apposed to open-air ones. Open-air missions is much easier becouse i can see much more and enemies don't hide (from camera) behind corners. I'm not sure if it's intentional or not.
  • Stash. It's good that we have separate slots for different types of eqiup. But given that weapons = abilities, you pretty much want to have at least one of everything + signums that enhance your favorite build. Given that we don't cart our stuff around, why stash is so small? I really hope that devs put some means of enlargening it.
  • Char-building. For the love of Void-Dragon, please, but DPS on the same screen with inventory. When i swap items i want to see how much it changes without clicking back-and-forth. Also, given that (currently) only items that change character model are armor and weapons it can be removed from inventory screen (it's still on other screens) and space used to display currently equipped skills WITH numbers, so i can view them as a change stat-sticks.
1 year 81 days ago
-1
BrotherLazarus

Well they have already described several ways which the crafted gear will become weighted toward what you want. Either by this string concept or via re-modification. I'm totally in agreement with you that 300 minutes for any item in game (assuming a power level is meant to take 4 hours) is far too long. But the previous two points should wholeheartedly fix the issue of quality, then you can still discuss reducing the timer, that's more than reasonable. 


"I don't need, or want, instant perfect gear at all times. I just want, if there's going to be an additional gate in the form of crafting timers, the result to be relevant to my build"

That's exactly what i've been arguing for too..... Only i've been arguing against the removal of the timer feature. For the reasons discussed. It's simply one way that would fix the gearing issue, but it's also the most detrimental to the player experience within the current crafting system

I knew we agreed.. just took 10,000 words to get there. Should we hug?

1 year 81 days ago
+3
Airsick Hydra

I... what?


That's literally all I was trying to say. "I want the gear I craft to be more weighted to what I'm doing, because of the amount of time I've invested in it".


That's all. I dislike the 1-4 hour craft timers immensely, because I already spend 2+ hours getting the rare T1 mats to make the Artificer gear blueprints (which took me six to twelve hours to find each BP, which is actually par for the course and thus not part of my umbrage taken), then I "optimize" it with T2 mats...


And then it spits out a result with worse stats than common gear. If I have 358 minutes of waiting after twelve to fifteen hours of matgrinding, I should get a substantially better and more build-relevant result... just like every other ARPG out there. I mean, look at Diablo 2, spend a little bit getting Resource and you kit yourself out instantly with appropriate gear. Torchlight 2, the same. Grim Dawn, maybe an hour to get the blacksmith, and by then you've gotten enough crafting mats to instantly gear yourself with more optimized equipment--and that's not counting the fact that from level 5 on you can socket components that literally give your gear stats appropriate for your build.


I don't need, or want, instant perfect gear at all times. I just want, if there's going to be an additional gate in the form of crafting timers, the result to be relevant to my build. Like in every other ARPG where it weights certain items to have certain enchants on specific gear.


I don't need +heat damage on a shield. I do need +DR and +Deflect. So when it gives me +heat damage six shields in a row, with one (inexplicably) being +ranged crit... there's a slight problem.

1 year 82 days ago
-1
FieserMoep

Well currently you haven't given a single piece of justification as to why or how making Martyr the first ARPG ever to give a player the option to instantly kit your player out with an entire set of suitable and fairly well optimised gear when progressing to a new area is going to make this game better. To my knowledge it's never been done before, for good reason.

That's why I continue to bang my drum. Until then my straw man is made of bricks. You want stuff in a reasonable time, I get that - so do I. But you can have that via numerous means that don't allow you to kit your entire player with an entire optimised gear set. Such as...

Having to grind "power level 2 mats to craft power level 2 gear"

Having to grind character levels or reputation to unlock certain recipes for new power levels. 

Having to do just about anything in order to get new gear.. 

Having crafting price set to a point that players can't afford to continually make gear.
Having any other limiting factor. 


But none of this is the case. You can grind mats in power level 1, enough to last you a lifetime. As for credits. 


Meta isn't a problem in itself, there is always a meta. But if the meta is logging in and out of a game to gear up, then it's a problem for me. If the meta to gear up is to just craft when you gear up with only minimal things to look forward to afterward then yes, this is also a problem for me. It is a problem for game design as a whole because you can invest 1 hour into play and use that hour to craft anything at any time. It isn't a case of investing 1h after you get to a new level, which is perfectly reasonable. 


The fact you dislike the current system means there is need to improve it. Not break it. All I argue for is having martyr give you a good quality item every X amount of time. Like every other ARPG known to mankind. 

1 year 82 days ago

Still you put up the same strawman time and time again...

Nobody here wants stuff without putting in work for it.

We want stuff in a reasonable time for puttin in work for it.

At the moment I put in dozens of hours to get thousands of materials I do not want to spend ANOTHER time sink for crafting time.

This point you miss time and time again and I am running out of options to make it more obvious to you.


Also I don't get why you are so afraid of the "meta". This game will have on. I promise you. And there is nothing you or the Devs can do against it. There is always a meta. There are always better ways to do something. And I can promise you we will get a Meta for Item acquisition and builds anyway. There is always the optimal way to do something. And if people are lazy, something I completely agree with you, they enjoy "lazy" ways. They will always scout the internet for the best builds and farm strategies, the thing is: How much do we wanna prevent that? At what point does it take away the enjoyment. People already do have jobs they work for, how much to they enjoy working here. There SHOULD be shortcuts if you earned them. At the point though that this always leads us to be unhappy I have to disagree. It does not necessarily. People are different. It is the same argument about cheating in single player games. "This will take away the fun". Guess what. It does not automatically. Why? Because people enjoy different things. This may be a shocker but it is true.


So here we are at a point where we either agree that people may be mature enough to play a game like they want to play it to be fun for them OR we presume we ate the apple and enforce the very same play style on everyone because we think we know better what they enjoy.


I am all for leaving the choice up to the player. If they earned the advantage, let them use the advantage. Easy as that. Do not force the same pace on them like the guys that did not earn it just so those don't envy them.

1 year 82 days ago

Yes my view is subjective - But the consequences are objective. What makes a game enjoyable might be seen as personal and indeed might vary. But in any game there are guidelines which should always apply. Rules of game craft if you will. 


- Progress should be frequent with regular and consistent rewards and incentives. 

- Players should be rewarded for time invested into the game. 


Now I can forsee that you will counter and say that "rule number 2 doesn't currently exist" - Sure it doesn't do it effectively but i've used up enough oxygen already explaining how there are other means of fixing the issue, rather than giving unlimited crafting. There is even a dev post outlining what will fix the issue.

At the end of the day if you feel like the game should give you specific gear for any chosen build at all points in the game, whenever you want, without effort or any time invested from the player. Then fair enough. There is nothing else to say.

But referring to other games that have limited recipe systems or limited / specific crafting per level is the downfall of your justification. Should you reach a new level and get three recipes but require a new item to craft them, go get the item - which meets criteria number 1 and then craft the item, which meets criteria number 2. We don't have to find recipes though, we don't need to worry about materials. They are more or less unlimited. So what other choice is there to limit quantity? Time. Sure you can argue that it currently is too high or the reward is too low. Again, making it unlimited is the worst fix for the issue when there are others that don't have dramatic impacts on how everyone else enjoys the game.

Because this does have real impact for other players. The balance topic is a billion miles from moot, because everyone has to now min / max in order to enjoy the game. You are correct - balance has to work around the majority - But if you make it possible to get good gear straight away when entering a new area - then that has to be the new balance point because you can't have a sub group of players (who will also want harder content due to the nature of those players) also having the easiest ride.

It becomes "the shortcut" which soon becomes "the meta"- every single player in the game has it enforced on them that they need to spend the same time as you do within game min/maxing and obsessing over gear in order to compete. You presume that players will play how they want to in order to progress. I disagree. People and players are lazy, they will do the easiest thing they can to get to where they want to go. This is no insult to humans this is just how we operate. We will do anything to get an advantage even if it makes us unhappy. If there is an exploit, like power leveling for EG. People will do it because it feels rewarding, what happens though is that player doesn't get to enjoy the game as much as they would have otherwise.

Should you disagree with this, fair enough. You want a full set of perfectly rolled green gear every time you level up or whenever you want to change your build. Without limitations. I'm simply pointing out the repercussions. 


Have a good day chaps! Keep up the good work.  



1 year 82 days ago
+1

But isn't personal satisfaction the goal for the individual players? In the end we are supposed to like this game, right?

You claim to speak in the name of "improving the actual experience" yet you also do nothing but speak for what you think is right - personally.


The balance argument is also kinda moot. The game has to be balanced for the majority of players and those most likely will be casual players. If min/maxers "beat" the content by making it easier for them, that is precisely what they aimed for. Getting stronger and actually feeling that power is their motivation in the first place. You can still balance the game for those other players without ANY problem. Unless they somehow feel inadequate for they know that there are better/more dedicated players around that have a higher clear speed. That is petty envy though, nothing else. There will ALWAYS be players that do better.


As for your "classical" approach you also come from a point of initial gameplay in many other ARPGs. While this is somewhat true most ARPGs that employ crafting also do offer the way to instantly and always gear up - as long as you got the resources. This mostly comes into play with twinks but ultimately they are balanced for that anyway. If you DO good, meaning you get the resources and maybe BPs, you should be able to use them and speed up your gameplay. I was never a friend of artificial gating that tries to reduce everyone to the same pace of progress. It feels like special school where nobody is allowed to achieve better than others to not hurt their feelings. Like football matches for children that never have a winner.


Some people just play more optimized and may put in more effort, if those people get ahead, let them get ahead of the progression curve. What is the actuall problem here? You think the curve gets destroyed. But what is so wrong with that? People play like they WANT to play. If they don't want to craft - they wont. If they want to, they gladly pick the option.

1 year 82 days ago
-1
BrotherLazarus

Yes - the last paragraph was venting some steam. Won't apologize as it is my belief that people want instant crafting for their own satisfaction of gearing convenience rather than improving the actual experience. The following post is my last attempt to explain why this is the case..


What needs to be first examined is what benefit comes from having unrestricted crafting and item modification the very instant you hit a new level.

 

  • Yes it means at all times the players in the game will be playing with their exact chosen build, with the majority of items they need to make that build effective. All be-it green quality and not purple. You have a smart head and don't need to be told why this is a bad thing. So now the gearing process involves a major spike, exchanging entire gear sets in a single setting, with only purple to look forward to afterward which represent slightly better versions of what you already have. All of this without even leaving the base. 

The consequence of this advantage is that the entire game's balance would have to be based around the assumption that every player has a full set of green gear that is min/maxed at all times and at all points of time within the game. Otherwise the content would be too easy for those players. Therefore every player would therefore need to do this, whether they wanted to or not in order to not be at a disadvantage. So while being against sitting in base for 30 minutes re-rolling gear - That's exactly the consequence of this, only it's now mandatory for every player to do. It might seem like i'm talking in extremes - i'm not. 


                                                                                                  The classical approach


Instead of the above it's my belief that a gearing process should be a gradual progression, that doesn't mean long term. That means X amount of items per X amount of time. ARPGS don't give you 16 items at once. Ever. And for damn good reason. The aim of 16 new items is about 4 hours as set by the devs. To me this sounds perfect. It means every hour you will be getting a few new bits of gear from playing the game. 1-2 of which might be from crafting. While it might feel like this is what you are asking for, it's not. What you are asking for overshoots this by a few dozen miles. 


For one last attempt at explaining the WHY of what i'm saying.. See the graph below where on the left we have instant crafting. On the right we have a time or quantity restriction.



                                                                                                  My proposition

What I believe you should instead be focused on is simply saying - Make the crafted gear better, rather than asking for an infinite quantity of it. This, is and has already been explained as to how this is going to be fixed by A) Having chains of enchants that make more sense and B) Being able to modify the items you get. Yes you can argue that the shop takes away value from crafting - that's why the shop is taking a swing form the nerfbat. I'd also say crafting gear shouldn't be better than world gear.. But it should be more accessible. Which it is as you choose what you get. Again, complaining about what you get being crap is more an issue of the above implementations being absent, and not a reason to justify the extremity of instant crafts.


Hopefully - You can see i'm not trying to be obtuse - I'm trying to argue against pretty much destroying the item/time progression in the game by giving everyone free green gear thats 80% of the max for that sector. Instantly. Every time they level. While it seems like a viable fix for the game, you have all the recipes, you have 100s of materials, you even will have the means to re-roll stats on items. So being able to kit an entire character out without any form of restriction is just developmental suicide if they want players to have any motivation to actually play. Unless somehow purples suddenly became that more more exciting.


Side note - If you wanted a worse quality to be instant crafted like blue gear - that's more like 50% of the BIS then fair enough - I couldn't argue against this. 

This comment was edited 1 year 82 days ago by Airsick Hydra
1 year 82 days ago
+2
Posted by Airsick Hydra 1 year 82 days ago

Mages that use mana to cast a spell do sometimes have cool downs too. In many games... This isn't anything new so stop pretending it's like having someone piss on your kids. The fact you don't have multiple spell is a point, but it still doesn't mean it is "pointless" - It can act as a means of effectively saying "You can cast this again AFTER 30 seconds but not EVERY 30 seconds" - whether you like that or not is a different thing, whether its balanced or not is yet another thing. But it does have an effect. 


For the record in crafting you can craft pretty good gear by sitting afk in based yes for a few days... But it'll never put you up a power level. Hence the use of the term "pretty good" - sure it'll make the game easier if you do that when you come back - but you wont be able to use it to skip content or get any further ahead.  


Lastly if we did implement free crafting... unlimited crafting... Then what would happen is that the very moment you go from power level X to X+1 and level up. You would head straight to the shop and not just craft yourself an entire set of gear, but instantly modify it all to my chosen build and stats of your choosing. That gear would be "pretty good" - about 80% towards being the best gear in the sector give or take. So now what's going to happen is your going to play the game and have 0 excitement because you will be getting very minor upgrades as you play, basically getting +1 enchant per item and a couple points of damage, if that. Then i'll be seeing you back in the forums to complain because you can't see the point in playing for such small gains and lack any motivation to play. 


This last statement isn't specifically aimed at yourself - The whole argument that somehow because you have to wait for something that the game is no longer playable or enjoyable really seems a little melodramatic to me. It's been repeated a few times and I just can't get my head around why people are playing a game that they clearly don't enjoy actually playing just to get better gear that they resent having to work for. It's like the years of loot based games have actual taken gamers to the point that they play to get a loot fix rather than to enjoy a game. When they are told they can play a game that's fun to get gear - they would rather just get the gear the fastest and easiest way possible with as little time in game as possible. 

Usually, you raise at least a decent point and it's understandable, but that last paragraph positively reeks of "it's not how I want the game to be, so it's heresy!"


60 minutes, to craft a single item, that will be worthless, cost more than shop gear, and use up valuable mats that could better be spent on an Artificer item (which likewise currently is outright stated as being broken, so that's out too, making the whole crafting system utterly pointless in this build), is not a complaint about "waah waah I can't get gear waah", it's a critique about a system that is intended to be integral to your experience in the game that is currently completely broken.


I'm honestly not sure if you're being intentionally obtuse on this point, or if my natural abrasiveness blinds you to the actual meaning of what I'm writing, but it's like we're speaking completely different languages at this point man.


In what ARPG that you have played, do you not have a very high chance of acquiring better gear for your build? In what ARPG do you have to spend two or three days at a time to get a tiny, insignificant bump in power level? Because I feel as though your argument is shaped more by MMO experience, grinding raids for weeks for a single gear upgrade, than ARPGs, where if I grind continuously for six hours I will find no less than four or five set items. I popped a pair of Tarot missions as the third person in the group to do so last night, weighted to give shields and melee weapons. Know what I got? A multi-melta and a bunch of inferno pistols. This is most assuredly not working as intended.


It feels like you just aren't actually listening to our feedback at this point, you're just coming across as upset that Moep and I have been presenting a viewpoint that differs from yours--after in another thread you stated to someone something along the lines of "this strikes me as being funneled into your ideal form of play".

1 year 82 days ago
Posted by Cryptomancer 1 year 83 days ago

When a mage uses mana there's an opportunity cost. For every spell you cast, there's another spell that you can't. In this game there is literally ONE ability that uses your class resource AND it has a CD. It's the very definition of redundant. If you had multiple abilities that used the class resource, and maybe one had a CD and the other didn't, so you had to balance resource use and CD management then each would add something to the game. As it stands the class resouce is completely meaningless.


I could accomplish what you're talking about by just not playing the game for a couple days between tiers until I craft my "pretty good" gear. Whom does that benefit? Me? Certainly not, now I can't play the damn game. The community? Certainly not, now you have fewer people playing. Game balance? Certainly not, it's just a matter of waiting until an arbitrary progress bar fills and then you're right back where you started. This is not an F2P game. There should not be time gating. Period. If you want to balance crafting, then reduce amount of resources you get, or increase the amount needed to craft, but at least then it's still grindable which is what ARPGs are all about. Time gating benefits absolutely no one and it's just purely frustration designed to get people to buy in game currency in F2P games. It's the only reason such a mechanic exists and it has absolutely no place in a game like this.


Mitigation isn't an option with the Inoculators. It's not like there's multiple viable build paths. You have healing and garbage buffs. End of list. If the combat stim buffs were actually useful, and there was some other way to heal (which I haven't encountered yet, but I'm only level 5) then sure, but as it stands non-red slots are garbage-tier.

Mages that use mana to cast a spell do sometimes have cool downs too. In many games... This isn't anything new so stop pretending it's like having someone piss on your kids. The fact you don't have multiple spell is a point, but it still doesn't mean it is "pointless" - It can act as a means of effectively saying "You can cast this again AFTER 30 seconds but not EVERY 30 seconds" - whether you like that or not is a different thing, whether its balanced or not is yet another thing. But it does have an effect. 


For the record in crafting you can craft pretty good gear by sitting afk in based yes for a few days... But it'll never put you up a power level. Hence the use of the term "pretty good" - sure it'll make the game easier if you do that when you come back - but you wont be able to use it to skip content or get any further ahead.  


Lastly if we did implement free crafting... unlimited crafting... Then what would happen is that the very moment you go from power level X to X+1 and level up. You would head straight to the shop and not just craft yourself an entire set of gear, but instantly modify it all to my chosen build and stats of your choosing. That gear would be "pretty good" - about 80% towards being the best gear in the sector give or take. So now what's going to happen is your going to play the game and have 0 excitement because you will be getting very minor upgrades as you play, basically getting +1 enchant per item and a couple points of damage, if that. Then i'll be seeing you back in the forums to complain because you can't see the point in playing for such small gains and lack any motivation to play. 


This last statement isn't specifically aimed at yourself - The whole argument that somehow because you have to wait for something that the game is no longer playable or enjoyable really seems a little melodramatic to me. It's been repeated a few times and I just can't get my head around why people are playing a game that they clearly don't enjoy actually playing just to get better gear that they resent having to work for. It's like the years of loot based games have actual taken gamers to the point that they play to get a loot fix rather than to enjoy a game. When they are told they can play a game that's fun to get gear - they would rather just get the gear the fastest and easiest way possible with as little time in game as possible. 

1 year 82 days ago
+1

And here i am... just annoyed by the plasma sound :D


1 year 82 days ago
+4

Gonna throw something out there, because my build just rolled over into Account level and I have a few notes for you.


1. Later on, you'll get access to lowering your armor CD (both items with a substantial, IMO, reduction, and a talent tree with another 12% or so) which can total dropping it by a full quarter or more. You'll also get access to +focus regen. I effectively do not run out of focus, and my cooldown is 4.7 seconds, so I can use my armor ability quite frequently. It's just a slog until then.


2. Innoculators... definitely stick with heals until, well... darn near the end. I'll explain why in a moment.


3. Cover is very useful, and this point I think we're either playing different games or you haven't come across some of the Hell Rooms yet (where you can lose 15k+ effective hit points in a single 30 second fight, with just trash mobs). I currently have something to the tune of 104 HP/S regen, so the cover keeps me from losing more damage while I heal up. In blobpits, that's vital. You'll see those more as you level, and Emperor help you if you ignore cover (or you're a sword and board build). I'm not sure how you're unable to do sustained damage from cover, too. The only time I have issues is with the odd targeting hiccup here and there causing me to damage my cover--the fact that it mitigates incoming damage and suppression will be vital the instant you run up against, say... Havocs.


4. There's a perk that you get early on that you can use as soon as you hit 20 that drops the weapon swap CDs by 50%. Get it and use it.

1 year 82 days ago

FYI, blocking with a shield costs focus. Dodging as Assassin costs as well. If I am not mistaken, certain belt items have focus cost as well. Probably executions for crusader will cost focus. Right now you don't have that many ways to spend resource, but doesn't mean it won't change. Maybe Psyker class will be built around using resource.

1 year 83 days ago
-4

Oh my lord, I just can't take it...another kid who didn't read the roadmap, has no patience and really wants to be playing Diablo 40k. 


Hydra, you have the patience of a saint to deal with this kinda crap.
1 year 83 days ago
FieserMoep

Agreed with the resource cost scenario - I guess having a dual pool does allow for flexibility over timer though. If you three moves and you want for eg. 


1 - Cast 1 times every minute /

2 - Cast 2 times every minute / 

3 - Cast 2 times every minute / but not more than twice per 5 minutes. 


Then the dual pool system actually allows for this form of quantity control where a simple timer wouldn't. 


You are talking about wow endgame though, not wow leveling. Wow leveling is a case of picking up whatever you can thats a bit of an improvement. Because in a couple hours it's going into the trashcan anyway. What is being requested though is something that would make the leveling process drastically easier than it is currently forecast. 
1 year 83 days ago
+1

About GCD and weapon swapping: IIRC, before the last update with character-wipe I had a perk that made the GCD on weapon swapping smaller...

1 year 83 days ago

I agree on the opportunity cost. A resource + CD system mostly makes sense if you have several abilities.

With only one you could just work with resource OR CD for both are a bit redundant if we are honest.


As for the WoW analogy. I would not go so far as to say you get each and every level a new set of items and that you grow WAY more naturally into your gear. For one simply reason: You pretty much have complete control over gear and each and every piece of gear is catering to specific builds or expressions of that class. Meaning they always provide you with the stats you need for the different variations. So even though you don't always get an entire set you reliably get items that improve on each other and always support your class with good stats.


In WoW it is actually pretty hard to NOT get the gear you need to be efficient. The thing about WoW is that you always hunt for the BIS gear that makes you MOST efficient. In Martyr we currently struggle to not be "garbage".

1 year 83 days ago
+1
Airsick Hydra

When a mage uses mana there's an opportunity cost. For every spell you cast, there's another spell that you can't. In this game there is literally ONE ability that uses your class resource AND it has a CD. It's the very definition of redundant. If you had multiple abilities that used the class resource, and maybe one had a CD and the other didn't, so you had to balance resource use and CD management then each would add something to the game. As it stands the class resouce is completely meaningless.


I could accomplish what you're talking about by just not playing the game for a couple days between tiers until I craft my "pretty good" gear. Whom does that benefit? Me? Certainly not, now I can't play the damn game. The community? Certainly not, now you have fewer people playing. Game balance? Certainly not, it's just a matter of waiting until an arbitrary progress bar fills and then you're right back where you started. This is not an F2P game. There should not be time gating. Period. If you want to balance crafting, then reduce amount of resources you get, or increase the amount needed to craft, but at least then it's still grindable which is what ARPGs are all about. Time gating benefits absolutely no one and it's just purely frustration designed to get people to buy in game currency in F2P games. It's the only reason such a mechanic exists and it has absolutely no place in a game like this.


Mitigation isn't an option with the Inoculators. It's not like there's multiple viable build paths. You have healing and garbage buffs. End of list. If the combat stim buffs were actually useful, and there was some other way to heal (which I haven't encountered yet, but I'm only level 5) then sure, but as it stands non-red slots are garbage-tier.

1 year 83 days ago
Cryptomancer

My point is that for me as a player, i'd rather swap to a weapon that is the most appropriate tool for combat - Even given the clunky nature - Having my assassin swap out my needle rifle just to instantly apply the anti heal, then swapping back again would be a perfectly reasonable result of this change. I'm just saying i'm not keen on that idea - but that is just my personal view. I can see why people would want it as an option given how readily available it is in other genres.

Worth considering that double cost abilities aren't anything new to a video game. Take for eg the classic Mage who uses mana to cast spells. Some of those spells might be too strong to cast three times in a row, so putting a CD on it helps mitigate that issue. But they still cost mana. I do sort of agree that having more regen and no timer is ideal. But at the same point I think I can sympathize that it would require a fairly drastic overhaul of every armor ability to make it work this way. Then you would have to factor in the increased regen rates etc and use that as a point of balance which is even harder to cater for and remain balanced. Now is certainly the time to do it though if the devs can make an improvement. 


With RE to gear - I'm saying this while taking into consideration that you can modify gear by changing enchants or affixes you don't like. Just look at the tech tree for more information. So I think the gearing process is already due to be far easier than you give it credit for. Being able to instantly equip your character with entire gear sets that are very powerful once modified - yes I do feel is too strong if there is no other limiting variables on the quantity of gear you can produce. Most importantly when a player enters a new zone. There would be a sudden jump in player gear and no real sense of slowly progressing up and collecting the new pieces along the way.

I'd say it's similar to asking for every WOW character to get a free blue armor set in the mailbox at every single level. What you are also asking for however is the ability to have an instantly personalised set of blue armor with all the stats you would like for your chosen build at every level. Which personally i'm not fond of. I like to gradually pick up items at a pace and retain some excitement when I get stuff that's usable. Now if you have issues with the pace we currently gear at - that for me is another issue and not something spamming crafting should be the thing to fix. Again just emphasizing i'm discussing what the gearing process will be in a very short time once crafting is fully unlocked - which likely explains our differing views.

Re the health regen I think you misinterpret my meaning - there is a perk which doubles your health regen - but it makes the inoculation far less effective. Making you a regen based tank. It's not really broken, it's just a more sustained form of combat and for those - healing options aren't really that important as something like mitigation might be.  


Good work soldier. Enjoy the talk.

This comment was edited 1 year 83 days ago by Airsick Hydra
1 year 83 days ago
+1

Don't get me wrong. I'm not advocating for a removal of stats. What I'm saying is that the items should have some intrinsic use besides being just a statstick. Even just only having certain kinds of bonuses on certain item slots would go a long way toward having the system make some degree of sense. Again, why do my Frag Grenades give me hit points? It's absurd. Why does my Eye Implant not give me bonuses related to vision or perception? What even in the hell is a Signum? The items should have MEANING to them. ESPECIALLY in a universe so full of lore like WH40K.


Constantly switching weapons would be a major DPS killer as the weapon switch time is punitive, but having abilities start on CD means that even weapon switching in an emergency is almost nonviable. The only reason to switch weapons in combat is because you literally have no other choice. It's the option of last resort. I'd like to be able to use my Lasgun against light/normal enemies and then quickly swap to my Plasma Gun against Champions for the AP on the 1 ability, but I can't because it starts on CD. It makes it almost pointless to have two weapons in the first place. If they got rid of overheating I would never weapon swap.


There's no reason for an ability to have 2 restrictions, cost and CD. One is enough to balance it appropriately. Having a 60 second CD means it cannot be spammed so the resource cost provides absolutely nothing to the game.


Crafting a full set of Rare items doesn't mean they will be GOOD and have useful enchants. Rare items just means they have 3 enchants and higher ilvl (which is useless mechanically). The 3 enchants might be garbage, or not relevant to your desired build. So your argument that you can craft a full set of Rares at the start of a new tier is spurious.


If it's possible to have high enough HP that you don't need a healing item, then frankly that's unbalanced. There's no reason to run any other build as it would make you unkillable.

1 year 83 days ago
+1
FieserMoep

Just re the comment i made on button mashing. My point is that you can make an entire build around using aimed shot for EG. Investing all skill points into it. All + stats into it etc. Then have two weapons both with aimed shot. Removing the GCD on swap would mean you could use a weapon rotation of -


Weapon A - Aimed shot

Weapon B - Aimed shot

Weapon A - Aimed shot

Weapon B - Aimed shot


Hence "the button masher" - and why i'm hesitant of removing the cool down. But I do agree it doesn't feel smooth and needs refinement as well as some way to encourage more weapon swapping and making it feel more worthwhile. 


Re the mention of having enemies not drop "incongruent items" - I'm directly quoting the staff here. So yes. This is something they were taking into consideration when doing elite tables. I'm not saying a unit has to have the item as an equippable. But their specific words were that they wanted to be very careful which enemies dropped what items so that it didn't feel too misplaced. 

1 year 83 days ago
+1

Well, "statsticks" are pretty much the bread and butter of classic ARPGs.

Sure, they do not serve any other purpose than to hold stats but for many this is actually a motivation - to get the best "statstick".

Getting the BIS and optimizing your build is pretty much the motivation for many players to push forward and this game certainly falls into that category.

I can see that simple percentage increases are a bit "dull" and that stats could also include meaningful changes that actually change the game play, those are mostly relegated to perks and maybe relics. Think of the "statsticks" as an enabler to support the idea of your build that you can define by other means.


As for the size of the levels and the movement speed I completely agree with you. This game is imho way to slow, in fact I just watch TV Series because as of now there is not much input needed and sometimes I just don't bother to backtrack to a chest etc. A sprint function may help here yet imho the problem is more fundamental than that.


The weapon switching could feel more dynamic - true - and I don't think that this game would turn into a button smasher, unless you actually want to be somewhat effective. Most skills serve a very specific role so you ether pick the optimal for the situation or you button smash around and achieve nothing. Imho that would promote the supposed tactical depth this game shall get later down the line.


Regarding Focus we are a bit in a weird situation. In theory you can improve your focus gain quite substantially and the CD is there to prevent it from being overused. Personally I am not a friend of that. If you improved your build in that regard you should benefit from it as long as it wont break the game. Build variety is also something that is supposed to be promoted and this is a bit of a contradicting mechanic.  


As for crafting time I have to agree with you completely. It serves no purpose. Like literally none and then it is just annoying. Some minor time reductions don't help - to me it still feels insulting for a game that is no MMORPG and also supposed to be solo'd. If you got the materials you should be able to craft what ever you like in an instant.


Hydra explained the power levels, regarding the stats you get when you compare items (Offense/Defense). Ignore those. Those are useless.


Killing mobs is a bit pointless, true. Pretty much the reason I just rush Clues or Hunt missions without caring at all for the mobs on the map. Also it is kinda hard for me to follow the logic of this being reasoned with being grimdark or immersive. We do get guaranteed loot from Elite Mobs anyway - loot they are not even able to use them self. This is is clearly not the reason. Also we can get random rewards from trash mobs. It is just very rare so I am not surprised you did not see it happen and it is clearly no reason to actively hunt foes you don't have to kill.


As for cover I agree with you. Within the majority of 400 missions in the current build I did not bother to use it once. As for the Tier4 Missions I tried it out yet it was pretty much pointless there too. Just got instantly evaporated while I was grinding on some Nurgle Elites Health regen. So for me it was pretty much a mechanic that could be removed in an instant and I would not even notice and in those cases It could maybe be useful just got instantly destroyed so I did not bother anyway.

1 year 83 days ago
+2

Some good feedback amongst the ranting in there. Not to be provocative but you have bought a testing phase alpha and yet seem angry that you have things to give feedback regarding? :D Perhaps this isn't the case. 


First up this is just to run through some stuff you might not know - or in some points just get further clarification as to what your thinking. Your feedback is both welcome and valid. My name is Hydra - the token White Knight. 

  • Whats the difference between the armor stats in this game and other ARPG / RPG / MMO / MOBA ? This is just standard of the genre, not sure what you want them to give you instead? Sure it's fair to say a grenade type giving you hit points is a little laughable but at the same time this is just standard for any ARPG. The primary objective of an ARPG is to make for variation and to give player control. This is why only FPS and similar action games limit gear in this nature.
  • Sprint is an interesting concept - I've not seen it inside an ARPG before and only within MOBA. It serves its purpose to a degree. I guess it could be added but you would have to be very careful because adding too much speed does break immersion or the "seriousness" of a game.
  • My own view on weapon swap and GCD is that it's 100% needed. I'd really dislike this turning into GW2 where you can constantly swap between weapons to generate more powerful combos like some form of quick-sling action game. Pretty sure this is what the devs are thinking. Sure swapping is convenient - it's also not really fitting with the vision of their grim dark game as it leans far more towards a button masher. It's perfectly reasonable to say you prefer those games however. 
  • Presumably the resource cost and CGD is because they don't think it'll be well balanced if an ability can be spammed. The fact you have a pool and a timer means it's far easier to balance how effective / useful it is. Fair cop though that they aren't balanced at all at the moment. 
  • Crafting needs a timer because you come pre equipped with all recipes for green. But the timers are adjustable and you can craft 3 at once with another 6 in queue. It's a trade off because you will always have a green recipe for every power level. Once you level up you can automatically craft gear for that level. The issue would be without restriction that the moment you level up you could craft an entire gear set that makes the content far too easy - causing tremendous balance issues. 
  • Attack power and defense add to your power level. Your power level determines the difficulty of the mission. If you are level 1 and oging on level 3 then it's a +2 difficulty mission and you will do less damage and revieve a lot more.  
  • I have some agreement that not seeing mobs drop items in a traditional sense and not seeing the XP bar slowly go up is a little frustrating. From what i've heard I think this is the issue they have with the enemy types - They don't want enemies dropping things that don't make sense - ie a nurgling dropping a plasma cannon or even credits for that matter. Just another case where I think their vision of being more grim-dark and immersive is taking priority. It's a good point though. 
  • If you have build with high health regen then you don't need an innoc for healing.
  • Cover will save your life if you go on more difficult missions. The last person who told me you could rofl stomp through the game without it died about 500 times on a tarrot mission at the hardest difficulty. 


chin up - keep up the good work.