Let's talk about suppression

Warhammer 40K Discussion

By Helwinter

Helwinter replied

3 22

Look, I get where the idea for this mechanic comes from. Grimdark of the future war etc etc, people get scared fighting monsters, they run away / get less effective.

But, let's be clear - this mechanic is in the table top games to add drama / reflect the lack of direct control a general has over the reactions of their troops. It is an abstraction to show the horrors of war, and it absolutely has its place on both the table top 40k game and in Inquisitor.

But... In an ARPG?

ARPGs should be focus on HEROIC actions, smashing stuff, getting loot, showing off flashy abilities. I don't see where this fits. It artificially inflates difficulty by increasing CDs and reducing movement speed when fighting large packs of mobs. It means that "boss" mobs like the dreadnoughts take FOREVER to kill, even after you isolate the mob.

It is an *anti*-fun mechanic that breaks the flow of combat, makes me feel less powerful and artificially inflates difficulty, as opposed to forcing me as a player to be better at moving and skill selection versus enemy abilities.

This post was edited by Helwinter

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Let's talk about suppression
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Helwinter

3 22

Posted by Voarag

Part of not getting suppressed is getting better at movement/skill selection.

This doesn't feel like a fast paced and flashy ARPG. And I like it.

As a Melee crusader, I have one (horrible) gap closer, and I have to choose whether to use in attack or as a withdrawal tool. The only attacks from mobs that can be dodged are (1) Melee attacks by not being in melee and (2) flamers, by not being in the flamer and (3) outranging ranged abilities. Outranging ranged abilities means..... I'm not hitting the mobs with my weapons.

I tried switching in a ranged weapon on my second load-out which worked out ok - mobs are easily kited and the aimed shot of the boltgun I was using pretty much 1-shot most mobs without too much trouble.

With a 2h weapon, I get a second gap closer but again that is (a) horrible and (b) trades an awful lot of survivability for not actually that much more damage. I recognise this might well be exacerbated by some wonky itemization right now (where's the attack and defence on items?) but ultimately I still don't think the mechanic is much *fun*.

Having a mechanic that immediately divides Ranged vs Melee in such stark terms isn't a great way to to get things going for class / weapon balance.

Having said all this, I don't think it's insurmountable - I'm sure not having a lot of defence stats / animations not being final and potentially as fluid as they could be / not having the right kinds of stats yet could easily just be the challenge.

This comment was edited by Helwinter

Discourager

5 9

I'm thoroughly enjoying the game so far, I like the suppression, it forces me not to stand in one place. Do I think it might need less occurrence in a melee class? Yes, I think there should be a certain tolerance to the melee classes. But for ranged classes, I think it's a damn good mechanic.

Helwinter

3 22

I thought I'd revisit this with a few thoughts

- With the improved items, I feel like suppression is more under my control. Higher defence rating and +suppression help

- I still think it is excessively crippling - it compounds mistakes and makes players "lose more" when they make mistakes

Again, I caveat this with a suspicion that the drugs injectors may be customizable to enable the recovery of suppression bar. Concerns broadly allayed by itemization.

Voarag

6 35

Part of not getting suppressed is getting better at movement/skill selection.

This doesn't feel like a fast paced and flashy ARPG. And I like it.

Puzzony

14 24

With the ranged loadouts, you will be able to avoid being supressed by moving around and using the cover system; however with the melee loadouts it very well can be a problem, but an easily fixable one, for example putting major amount of supression resistance on the shields, or give to one skill with every weapon an additional effect of restoring supression/triggering heavy supression resistance.

Voarag

6 35

Now you're getting somewhere.

I think it's a good mechanic.

One that clearly needs more testing. Which is why we're all here. Keep those suggestions coming.

Onslaught

6 15

I agree that the last thing you want when confronted with a ton of enemies bearing down on you is to be slowed down, have CDs increassed etc. I want to come out swinging, not run and hide. I can see how introducing some tactical elements that require decision making and thought could raise the game above your typical overpowered hero hack and slash, but the balance of combat tactics and offensive ability is a tough one for me. I'm worried about the game becoming too much of a slow paced strategy fest rather than an ARPG.

Helwinter

3 22

Yes, I suspect it does need a tune around melee vs others

However, I do think that the effects on your character need to be toned down - it could be a good thing to include as part of graduating difficulty, depending on how that is handled?

If standard Normal through Insane style difficulties, graduating the suppression effect makes sense.

If it's a player selects their own difficulty (i.e. through the use of items with affixes, etc) then again, tying the suppression effect into the affixes makes sense

If there's a one size fits all and the difficulty curves up with your character power, then suppression needs to be finely tuned.

I also recognise the role mechanical skill, experience in the game, frequency of cover, and how important weapon switching all are in the deployment of this mechanic - at the moment, though, it feels TOO punishing and especially so for melee characters. I don't want to be constantly running off, kiting slower mobs and managing that bar - that doesn't feel "tactical".

This comment was edited by Helwinter