Camera, Aiming and moving - worst part of game

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If I had to name worst part of Inquisitor: Martyr so far, it would be camera, aiming and moving.

Camera works awful, just take position in cover near door and you can't see where you are trying to shoot. At all. Walls that should be transparent aren't and interfere with your view all the time. You rotate camera to look from another direction, but desirable area falls out of your FOV.

Aiming is weird, you target enemy with a skill, but instead skill is directed at wall, cover enemy is hiding behind, or at the ceiling. But not at enemy. Every single time enemy is behind something you can be sure that skills that target area won't hit it. 

Piercing skills and beams have targeting issues as well. Half of them pass above heads of crouched enemies and can't target mines or nurglings at all.

Firing from cover has aiming issues as well - player can suddenly stop firing in a direction as if he can't turn there, although he fired in that direction a moment ago. Also shooting from cover melee enemies that got close is impossible - you start hitting your own cover instead.

Aim skills often do not allow to choose location or charge skill (all charge skills suffer from that). Player fires immediately instead.

Moving is bad as well. Instead of moving in direction where your mouse pointer is, character moves to the location mouse is pointing at via calculated route using same pathing AI does. That results in erratic behaviour on multilevel maps, as game can't determine what mouse pointer is actually pointing at. 

Performing evasive maneuver in a crowd of enemies is hard, as clicking on enemies will result in attack, while clicking somewhere outside results in character running in weird direction, picking the most dangerous route. 

Being able to control character movement via keyboard doesn't help, as in that case keyboard and mouse start to contradict each other. Attacking enemy with a mouse results in move and attack order which beats any keyboard movement input and results in character stuttering trying to move in range to shoot target and in between shots moving a bit in a direction player is guiding with keyboard. We need either an option to move in mouse direction, or option to fire at mouse pointer direction without a move order, even if target is outside range. 

This post was edited 1 year 147 days ago by Aedwynn
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Camera, Aiming and moving - worst part of game
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1 year 133 days ago
Airsick Hydra

You should, and record the results.


Kids today will never understand the skill involved in playing shooters with real lag. Quake DMs were more forgiving than Delta Force was though... but Delta Force had those maps where a sniper wasn't only three feet from the action, too.

1 year 134 days ago
+1
Posted by BrotherLazarus 1 year 134 days ago

Har har, you're funny. :P


I carry either a plasma cannon, grenade launcher, or heavy bolter in my Crusader's off-set, and my sword and board in the main set. But, he's not wrong. Even with my sword and board equipped I'm still like... half as fleet of foot as the assassins.


You're bringing back memories of hours spent in Task Force Dagger's maptool. Ah wasted youth.

Playing that game on a 56k dial up made me into the man I am today. 


Hadn't noticed that much difference between Cruz/Assy - I'll have to organise a race and compare base speeds. 

1 year 134 days ago
Airsick Hydra

Har har, you're funny. :P


I carry either a plasma cannon, grenade launcher, or heavy bolter in my Crusader's off-set, and my sword and board in the main set. But, he's not wrong. Even with my sword and board equipped I'm still like... half as fleet of foot as the assassins.


You're bringing back memories of hours spent in Task Force Dagger's maptool. Ah wasted youth.

1 year 134 days ago
Posted by BrotherLazarus 1 year 134 days ago

Victor Vran's WASD control scheme felt clumsy to me, I always resorted to click to move in that as well. Also, VV is only a couple years old... It just feels older with the unrestrained flood of pop culture references (the egg mortar and lightsabers are amusing).


For the use of heavy weapons, it seems like the best way to gain mobility on the Crusader is to equip the jump-pack... you lose the missile spam, but being able to rapidly redeploy is pretty helpful (and fun) in coop, and can be a boon in solo as well. Until targeting issues are worked out, it would probably work out better for the short term.

Or just don't carry 2 of them? - Equip literally anything other than another heavy in your offhand and problem solved. 


Clearly a lack of deltaforce players in here. If you don't run around with a knife in your hand then you are newb! Facing upwards too because fcuk health and safety.
1 year 134 days ago
Dead God

Victor Vran's WASD control scheme felt clumsy to me, I always resorted to click to move in that as well. Also, VV is only a couple years old... It just feels older with the unrestrained flood of pop culture references (the egg mortar and lightsabers are amusing).


For the use of heavy weapons, it seems like the best way to gain mobility on the Crusader is to equip the jump-pack... you lose the missile spam, but being able to rapidly redeploy is pretty helpful (and fun) in coop, and can be a boon in solo as well. Until targeting issues are worked out, it would probably work out better for the short term.

1 year 134 days ago
Posted by BrotherLazarus 1 year 146 days ago

My suggestion, don't click to move. Hold to move. Click to move is notoriously bad in many finished games, and with the weird targeting in this build it often results in spinning in place fast enough I'm surprised my inquisitor hasn't started vomiting. Or "I'm gonna attack this dreadnought instead of running away from it!". And WASD just feels too... twin-stick shooter to me.


Per aim, I'm not sure if it's an input issue or a range issue, but I have about a 50/50 shot at getting charged shots of any kind to charge properly; it's not just you. I haven't seen the piercing skill issue yet, but I'll admit I switched to autopistols pretty quick for the debuff skill on my twin-shoota git so I'm not surprised I haven't seen it.

In the most i agree with you that a WASD movement feels like it is intendet for twin-sticks. But long ago a game namend Victor Vran changed my mind on that matter. This game in particulary gave me a very good feeling about the WASD controll and i think the same system would at least benefit the assasin class. And the possebility to move and shoot at the same time would also improve the crusader especially with the heavy weapons who makes him very slow. Also the idee to storm a room at full speed while shooting my bolter empty makes my 40k senses tingeling.

1 year 146 days ago

My suggestion, don't click to move. Hold to move. Click to move is notoriously bad in many finished games, and with the weird targeting in this build it often results in spinning in place fast enough I'm surprised my inquisitor hasn't started vomiting. Or "I'm gonna attack this dreadnought instead of running away from it!". And WASD just feels too... twin-stick shooter to me.


Per aim, I'm not sure if it's an input issue or a range issue, but I have about a 50/50 shot at getting charged shots of any kind to charge properly; it's not just you. I haven't seen the piercing skill issue yet, but I'll admit I switched to autopistols pretty quick for the debuff skill on my twin-shoota git so I'm not surprised I haven't seen it.

1 year 146 days ago

As for piercing skills, as I stated, it does not apply to all of them. Some work just fine, but others - don't.

Equip two plasma pistols and try shooting a dual penetrating shot. Against enemies of normal height it works just fine, penetrating all who stand in the line. But try shooting at nurglings or crouched enemy - no matter where  you target it hits nothing - because shots travel at certain static height, not to a specific point on the ground or body part. I guess it was done so to maintain penetrating capabilities. Otherwise your shot will dissipate in the floor beyond first enemy, not hitting a line as it should. It can be fixed by changing collision - in case of beams that work, they hit everything below the beam, regardless of it height. Even if beam itself doesn't touch it.

This comment was edited 1 year 146 days ago by Aedwynn
1 year 146 days ago

 Okay, to clarify some points. I know all control elements and ofc I know about shift. What I was talking about is that game set controls in a weird way. Tested and working well variants are "Diablo style" where character moves in direction of your mouse pointer and attacks/uses skills at said pointer (with optional shift ofc to hold position). Or  WASD control with mouse used to shoot/interact only, without movement due to mouse click/skill use. We have none of those. WASD movement is hindered by mouse issuing a move order and requiring additional key (shift) to work, but shift prevents movement so you need to constantly switch between two modes - hold position + fire and move, all requiring their own key combinations. It needlessly complicates controls.

In case of moving by mouse, instead of moving where you are pointing, your character moves via route, and that may result in him stepping on mines or tripping a laser tripwire, running past dangerous foe that is about to unleash a strong attack - all because you have no direct control over his movements.

I know that not all aiming skills allow to charge attack. What I was talking, if you paid attention - is same skill denying it's mechanic. Same aim attack may allow me to pick a location (head, arms), or may not. On same enemy. Same condensed plasma shot may allow me to charge it for 3 seconds, or may fire immediately - denying a chance to charge attack up.

I do not want to turn it in top view board game, but when game fails to make walls that is directly ahead of me transparent within range not just of rifle, but pistols - that's plain wrong. When game still targets transparent ceiling lanterns - that's plain wrong. It's not about turning it in board game, it more about current camera not working as intended.

1 year 146 days ago

The  camera    they had  said they would be allowing the player to  set it a bit more  but   that's  not a game breaking priority right now  but i would  expect to see  better  control.   Closer to   final release  we will see.    As  for hitting  stuff like walls an doors  yep happens all the time and  the  enemy shoots through said wall to hit you in allot of cases.  Admittedly i mist a build  as i was  out of the loop but this issue  was  there day 1.   Just making it so the  Roof  i not directly target able would be a big plus.  Those stray shots  only go there  because the game think there is  something there  it can hit.

1 year 146 days ago

Few of my own thoughts to add as response. 

  • Problem with any top down game is that you can't see through doors well unless literally the entire door and wall dis pears. The devs have a choice here of removing almost nearly all the map and making it look like a board game, or using the current format. While it's not the best i've seen, it's far from the worst implementation of this inside an ARPG. Opacity settings need some tweaks tho.
  • Not personally had issues with aiming and abilities going in random directions when enemies are in cover? - I just hit the cover mostly, which i'm ok with. Except 1/10 sniper shots does bug and travels at 90 degrees.
  • With Peircing abilities i find you need to be aiming at their legs / the base of the character model and not their head or torso. Although inconvenient it kind of is the only way this can work, because when you aim at someone's torso 
  • Firing weapons around cover issue might be because the field of view from over is fairly specific and takes some getting used to. Admittedly it doesn't demonstrate it very well, would like to see this in a tutorial
  • Not all aim skills are supposed to charge. It states so on the tooltip. Some are just a slightly higher damage single target shot now. At least when I last checked some of them this was the case.
  • Re movement i'd like both approaches to be implimented like D3 - Hold click to move to mouse or click to auto pathfind. That way it suits both tastes and your finger doesn't die if you want a break.
  • Re moving out of enemies i'd be curious to hear what your proposed solution would be? You have the choice of using pathfinding which will go the fastest route or heading directly to mouse which won't move at all assuming you are trying to move through something. Can't see any room for improvement there?
  • As stated by my bro, try the shift key :D

Keep up the good work

1 year 147 days ago

Responding to your final part... shift + attack commands. Posts you in place for as long as you hold shift. Makes life as a ranged character easier by far (and melee, believe it or not).