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Weapon discussion - Sniper rifle overview / comparison (vid)Warhammer 40K Discussion
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Yes, do more....GJ !!
First thing: you didn't give the Pervasive Shot nearly enough time. It seems more useless than it actually is, and frequently is more useful than the AoE puddle. Second, the standard single shot is -murder- on manned turrets--as in, one shot one kill, with a Mars pattern.
Shame on you! Shame! Not giving Prismatic Shot its due. Working with a group, with a decent model of Long-Las, a cold bore shot is going to knock off about three quarters of a rather sizable clump of mobs. One swing from a chainsword and all of them then die. That's a utility. Think of it like various Curses that lower overall health.
Because our experiences of Pervasive vary greatly. Turret operators die from any AoE capable gun in 2-3 hits. Then in the time is takes to group a pack for a pervasive shot. I could have fired several times from any other weapon and likely already killed the enemies or achieved at least comparable damage.
Sure per shot the damage is slightly more impressive and its fun to use but at a cost of requiring setup time and rendering the weapon useless for an overheat - that doesn't in my eyes add up to be a net benefit to the weapon. Hence my lack of attention to it.
When it comes to doing weapon guides it'll give it it's due on the who's and the how's. But for me the gun lacks the same capability and quantity of strengths when completing basic content. Pervasive shot doesn't provide that strength to me. Due to it's notable drawbacks. Should it do 50% heat generation? - I'd probably be content.
I've never had a turret operator even take damage from AoE weapons, and that includes firing off grenades, without having to nuke the turret itself first.
It doesn't really require much setup to use Pervasive. You just have to take a few extra seconds to make sure that they're coming through a choke point (like Prismatic), and it inflicts heavy bleed damage on everything it hits with very little need to be as precise as you make it sound. The Exitus is not a bolter, or a sword--it's not an "actiony" weapon. Same goes for Prismatic (which I think you're confusing with Pervasive as you mention overheat)--if you're not using it on choke points with a plan in place to capitalize on what amounts to a huge debuff, you're not using it correctly and you're gonna have a bad time.
In other words, if you're expecting PoE Ranger/D2 Archerzon speed with a sniper rifle, you're doing it wrong and most failings will be more on you than the weapon. Which... is probably why I abhor the needler, since it's a mindless submachine gun with a charged shot debuffing tool, rather than a weapon that requires any real tactics on behalf of the user. In your video you mention "boost to movement speed", well... if you're a sniper, you ought not be moving very much. Your job is taking out high value targets, not interpretive dance. ;)
Seriously need to be able to edit comments from further out, it's easier than writing addendums with a doublepost.
I'll approach this from another angle, breaking down with a couple stories of my own:
One, in the heady days of drinking too much and playing too much D&D, one of my players decided he was going to build a strength build, then took a dex weapon. Extremes on both ends. Now, the dex weapon itself? Not a bad weapon. There are better choices, but D&D is full of "wrong choices" with a very small pool of "right choices". Now, of course he gets curbstomped and hates the weapon... because he wasn't using it the way it was intended.
Two, from designer days. We had a variety of approaches for magic, each one handled in a different way so it wasn't reskinned Vance garbage (a mage is a mage is a mage in most PNPs, the only difference is the Main Stat). One of them, was considered to be useless because it took time investment and forethought. Why? Because the testers that tried it didn't take into account that they were trying to use the wrong tool for the job, and were playing to a different mechanic's strengths while ignoring the strengths of that mechanic--they were fresh from spontaneous casting, and trying to use the ritual casting mechanic that way. So I sat down, and outlined some of the things they could do provided they put some thought into it. Suddenly, it wasn't a "useless system" anymore, because they were using it the right way, not trying to crack a walnut with a sniper rifle.
See where I'm going with that now?
I understand what you are saying, but I did take the time to say it's viable. But my video and arguments are regarding balance and not viability! More or less everythign in Martyr is viable right now. They have done a good job of that.
But having played and tested every one of these rifles for copious amounts of missions. My conclusion is that if you try to complete a mission with any other rifle, you will have an easier time with less of a headache. That doesn't make the rifle useless nor have a purpose. But to me that is simply it's state of balance. Now if you want to make the point that if a weapon has a situational use then it is "balanced" then I can see where you are coming from. But for me, and my view point. I'm talking as a mainhand, completing content.
You can edit your post, but the time limit was 300 sec - now it is 3600 sec. So hopefully it helps.
The Long-Las is like taking any kind of trip weapon in any of the D20 child titles; it takes specialization for it to shine. It takes some specialization for Prismatic to be effective, and it's really not a solo weapon ability because of it. It requires some extra thinking that almost no other weapon in Martyr needs, and is hurt because of it (because largely, I think most of us doing writeups think of the game in terms of solo-first). But when you work with a team, a number of things (for a lot of different mechanics) snap into focus. I've heard some poor things about the null rods, for example, from solo players--but nothing but good from group players.
I'd suggest running some group stuff with it to see what I mean, but then another member of your cabal might get relics too quickly and get booted for it. :P
1) Most AoE weapons won't hit turret operator when fired from the front - they lack AoE range to do that as targeting is still broken.
To hit operator you need to rotate camera so you are aiming effectively at the floor behind him - otherwise too large aim box for turret will interfere and shot will land too far away.
2) Needle Sniper Rifle is quite good vs crouds with it's large AoE shot. It's on a long cooldown, but deals a lot of damage in a very large AoE radius. Compare it to Exitus or regular SR that have smaller AoE and low damage - you need to fire at least two shots with those, with 3 sec CD it turns in 6s, not so different from 8s now?
3) Aiming with SR is stil broken, sometimes you can't aim your shot at all.
4) Cell Rot that's supposed to prevent healing doesn't work most of time. You can see that even in your video - reborn marauders continue to regenerate, after beeing shot in the head.
Honestly I think you exaggerate the aoe damage of the needler and understate the damage of the alternatives.
The base standard SR is 1.5 second cooldown and 190 damage per hit.
The base Exitus Hellfire is 3 second cooldown with 190 damage per hit + Dot.
The base Needle Rifle is an 8 second cooldown and 133 damage per hit + Dot.
The Needler has "some" aoe damage. But its a much higher cooldown and a lower damage rate. The advantage or trade off is a larger blast radius. But imho this doesn't compensate or make it quite comparable. That isn't to say it's bad. It's just not as good.
correction - the exitus is 150 damage + dot + Fleshbane (30%) making it 200+ against it's desired targets.
Set this current order state as My default.