Or, if the number of damage instances are increased in, for example, Heavy Flamer it is possible that a AOE build with very low CD could be effective. Interesting take on critical damage. 

Not sure if I like it or not, but leaning against not so much for reasons yet unknown.

Sincerly,

Vlricus von Kronstadt

In games such as D3, with CC/CD in 80/800 range, most damage is done through crits and not rolling one becomes 'crit fail', with the main difference crit hit in those ranges is virtually impossible to control.

Ideally, Crit-build should be as viable as straigh-damage one. In that matter, Snakefist thinks crits should activate proces, but don't deal damage. Player will have, even involuntarily, *some* CC - or perhaps may intentionally go to medium-value + Grinder, so effect on crit would still appear, only less often. And crit-less build should be available, too.

And those are IDEAL condition, very very hard to predict all over the crit line and usually balanced continuously until reasonably good balance is found. But Snakefist is glad that NeoCore goes in non-crit direction, too!

Yes you're right - Mighty Snakefist didn't thought of that...  and He was thinking and a thinking, til there's nothing He ain't thunk...

So, you're awarded by Mighty Thinking Cap, Level 1

Still, He would prefer mechanics explain - He thinks something like 'they use those in the formulas, why not publishing them?', stilll

The tutorial maps are good for that kind of testing. Don't end the mission but abort it and you have the same enemys over and over again ^^.

@IRRELEWAHNT‍ 

No. Just no - would need to face the opponents of the same PL and watch individual characteristics (armour and the unknown amount of reduction or other unknown resistance which will interfere) or concentrate to one exact type opponent + would have to reverse-calculate PL curve (can be done, but is a bother) because it won't be the same value on all testing maps. No offense, but Devs should publish that... and other mechanisms... there will be plenty of time to calculate things then :D

My worst nightmare: Capping crit % at for instance 25%, could lead to multiple sources of crit. (Which is a thing in dota.) And yes, that means your crit can crit. Even if you operate with reasonable numbers, a "crit-crit" is ... of the charts. Mind you, since dota uses pseudo-random for almost everything it also make the chance of "crit-crit" very low, and it has a damage maximum far below the damage had it been calculated directly from items, basedmg etc.

(7000 hours dota so yes that is the game I will most likly reference, but purley because I know some numbers there.)

But ty for information @SNAKEFISTIFSO‍ . You seem to have a very good understanding of numbers. Hope you will share more wisdom with me in the future.

Sincerly,

Vlricus von Kronstadt

Mighty Snakefist insists for quite a while that they are listed on tooltips, or in some player-available format, such as Wiki.

Example how others do, Blizzard WC3 1.29 patch change:

1) Prior calculation: (Avg Damage *Critical Multiplier) + Item Damage = Total Damage

2) Removed + damage item interaction from multiplier calculation: (Avg Damage + Item Damage)*Critical Multiplier = Total Damage

Looks the same, but are quite quite different in fact - not to be Mysterious:

• Current; 40avg + 10 from items (40+10)*3=150
• Change; 40avg +10 from items (40*3)+10=130

40 being an average normal damage, 10 being bonus damage from items, and 3 being the crit modifier (300%)

Additive vs multiplying. Some 15-20%, depending on numbers, even more on skill level where 300% becomes 400%. Additional damage is quite often 24, or attack speed changes comes to change much.

So... This is QUITE important! What does CD +20 stands for, anyway? +20 Damage over normal? (that's reasonable, in fact!) When EXACTLY it's applied? We have no idea, and won't have one until Devs decide to publish it, because of PL system - most of those could be normally reverse engineered, but not here.

Most important is to keep the CC% in reasonable rate - Snakefist, in His Wisdom, considers them Nevermore than 30%, and that just in mid or endgame, while CD% of +100% proved it's worth in d2, and higher numbers did the opposite in d3.

Apart from the mechanic unknown, the "CC activate procs, but doesn't deal crit-damage", which is important for large number of passives, needs to be known (Snakefist, in His Wisdom, thinks that procs are completely unneeded, and crits can play their role for passives, and clearly stated values, such as 3% or 10% for item-skills)

Anyone care to explain/point me to the formula used for crits/damage in this game?

Without information my suggestion: pseudo-random crit chance, with baseline always being 0. If you are really scared crits will flood the market, make an inverse comparison between attackspeed and highest possible dmg crit, so high attackspeed means reduction in max crit dmg.

These are just suggestions until I understand how critical hits are calculated and how corresponding damage is calculated.

Sincerly,

Vlricus von Kronstadt

One particular indication suggests that crits (with Grinder Perks) are *done* but doesn't change damage output. Snakefist would spend some time to test this, but... such a mechanic should be public, and not try-or-fault test of an individual (or Multiple Personalities).

Other than that, whole Crit mechanic is complicated enough and has influence over way too much aspects of the game, that it makes doubtful that just math can give any accurate representation of actual quantity (including major things as class influence).

And this comes from the person, who did, in His Wisdom and Endless math-balancing obsessiveness, calculated things such as how much each pizza is owerpowered or underpowered, based on caloric content and delivery time. This (He couldn't be sure without mechanism made public) looks pretty much like try-and-fail-and-have-it-balanced-during-the-years-if-ever kind of thing. CC% limits representing one factor - Grinder is a constant, CC% isn't... And so on. 

(For a Refference, Mighty Snakefist leveled one Melee Crusader as Grinder-only (50lvls, 20% bonus) and one (currently 47/60, not 50 because of Superstition! AND A Conspiracy!) as a crit-based - couldn't really tell the difference, but those were different game-versions. And we can't know now about possible CC-limit - thing that is highly desirable, because in D3 with ~80% CC and ~800% CD a vast majority damage comes from criticals, so non-crit is in fact a fatal failure and proc-mechanism is a product of not Madness, but Complete Ignorance from the Dev team - in short, CC% needs a reasonable, hard-limit to avoid all end builds being crit-based and Perks such as Grinder (and possibly more, added later) a viable option. To support this, D2 had CC such as 10% and 25%, and CD was in fact just double damage - easy to predict, easy to control - and no stupid procs...