Open Letter from our Producer on Game Feedback regarding Fate & Future of Martyr
Warhammer 40K Community 20"Dear Community Members,
we are truly grateful for your feedback! We have received plenty of comments and we’ve found a lot of truly useful and valuable ideas among your observations – we must admit that some of you even pointed out ideas we haven’t considered yet. The essential part of WH40K: Inquisitor – Martyr is the progression system and we want to create a system that could be hugely enjoyable for the majority of the players.
After reading through the feedback, we realized that the following issues seem to be the most problematic for the community:
- Daily Fate limits (and hard limits in general): it’s becoming very clear that you don’t want any restrictions on grinding and mostly you don’t want any limitations on the pace of the grind.
- Daily quests: you seem to dislike daily quests; some of you feel that a daily quest is nothing but a useless limitation, not to mention that it has some unfortunate connotations since it has become a general feature in FtP games
- The general feedback indicates that the community doesn’t want to see any hard and soft limitations, and the majority of those who sent feedback thinks that such limitations affect their gameplay style, which they don’t like.
- Many people started to think that Inquisitor – Martyr will be a pay-to-win game: the reasoning behind that seems to be that if you can buy Fate points and if some of the gameplay elements are similar to the ones used in FtP MMOs, then it’s clear that we will sell Fate for cash (we won’t – see below)
- Many people find the lack of the tier end gameplay elements problematic.
- Some people think that it’s unwise to plan out seasons and expansions until the core game hasn’t been finished.
- A lot of people think that crafting takes too long, others find the whole concept of required crafting time useless and they think that simple resource restraints could be enough.
- Many people find the speed of leveling very slow at the moment.
We spent the last couple of days with rethinking the desired pace of the progression system and exactly how necessary the current limitations are. Eventually we came to the conclusion that we can rework the system and come up with a better one. The current progression system was designed 3 years ago, but the game has changed tremendously since then, and this is the first time that we put it to the significant gameplay test. You have convinced us that there are plenty of elements that would need a thorough change – and don’t forget, this reaction is exactly the reason why we decided to launch the game in Early Access. We are counting on you, the members of our community to provide valuable feedback, and if you have been following the development since the beginning of the Founder Campaign, you must be aware that we are willing to make drastic changes in the core system when the test results prove that these are necessary.
We know that there are developers who use the Early Access as a simple pre-release launch, but we are devoted to sticking to the original meaning of the term: during Early Access you can tell us what you find problematic, and if you can convince us that these issues truly need to be changed, we will do so. We are making this game for you, the players, after all. Sadly we can’t promise to comply with each and every request: reality sometimes exceeds desires, and let’s face it, it is impossible to create a game that could satisfy all needs, but we are honestly trying to do everything we can. We are only asking you to understand our standpoint on the matter and don’t let your negative experience based on other Early Access games influence your notions about what we say, why we say it, what we’ll do or won’t do – you can judge us based on what we do.
All in all, we’ve come to the following conclusions:
- Daily Fate limits will be gone and the Fate point rewards for missions will be higher. We can totally accept the reasoning that a game mechanic that forces you to play in a set time is simply not okay. This modification has one consequence, though, namely that hardcore players will charge ahead very soon in their progression – hopefully they will find the tier end gameplay modes enjoyable; or they can always return when we unlock new content.
- The Daily Quest system has divided the NeocoreGames team as well. These missions feel like formalistic segments and some of us felt thought that segments like these simply don’t fit the WH40K universe. We have realized that daily quests can be omitted and instead we’ll put in more story-based mission with stronger ties to the Subsector.
- End tier gameplay will play a more significant role in the future. We’ve already had plans for incorporating warzone planets and endless mission types that could satisfy the hardcore players until we unlock the next tier and release new content, and we are going to add gameplay elements that offer new challenges and allow progression. These gameplay modes are not ready yet, but they will come in the future.
- You simply cannot buy Fate points for money. Our community managers have explained this on numerous occasions, but we can’t stress that enough. It was always one of the fundamental principles of the design, we’ve never even contemplated the idea, and what is more, we have made this very clear in the early stages of development. Our goal was to include a player-friendly monetization system which supports the overly dedicated players, and this is exactly the reason why we want to make even the DLCs available by grinding. If this decision gives someone the false impression that this is going to be a pay-to-win game and we will definitely introduce the purchase of Fate points sometime in the future, then it’s really unfortunate – because it is not true –, but all we can do is to confirm that Fate can’t be bought for money.
- DLCs and Seasons: as we frequently explained in the past, we are planning to create a living, continuously expanding world in WH40K: Inquisitor – Martyr and keep it alive for a long time. It means that we need to plan in advance: a world that requires fresh content patches for years requires a long preparation phase. Currently we are focusing on the core game and we are not developing anything else besides, and trust us, even the first two tiers require tremendous effort from the whole team. To put it very simply: we are working very hard to finish the game and we don’t have time to focus on DLCs. It doesn’t mean we don’t know what we are going to release in the future, we have some rough ideas about the Seasons and DLCs that will come later. We don’t have DLCs and Season contents stashed away on the hard drives only to cut them from the game. Still, we are creating a long, slowly unfolding storyline here that only begins in the core game: we need to know what’s to come.
- Crafting time: we will balance the various crafting periods and in several cases we’ll cut the time restrictions – although we’ll also keep them in cases where we consider them important. We would like to ask for your patience and give us a little time: two extra layers are still missing from the crafting system, which will allow you to craft items more precisely so they can fit in with desired builds. If you find the balanced time restrictions useless even after all these changes, we’ll offer some potential solutions and give you a chance to vote on those.
- The speed of leveling will be rebalanced as the current XP tables are skewed. The 2B XP gap between Account Level 50 and 51 will be ironed out and the Inquisitor Rank XP table will be refined as well to allow smoother and faster leveling.
We truly hope that you will like these changes – the bad news is that they require significant amount of work and also affect the test seasons and the next milestones, so we can’t promise these changes before the promised huge update in early November (we hope that you can test the new mechanics after the November update, but as we don’t want to release small patches, we’d rather wait and implement all the changes in one go). We are asking for your patience and in case you don’t want to play the current version, we suggest that you should return after the big November patch. That brings some bad news, unfortunately: a modification of this scale can only be implemented and tested after a fresh start, therefore it will require a character and an account level reset as well.
We are really grateful for your feedback and your help. Hopefully you’ll keep on playing and testing and sending us your ideas – we want to create a great game with your help."
Zoltán Pozsonyi
Producer
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I'm a bit late to the party commenting here but I'd just like to echo the sentiments of some others in the comments section. Firstly I think your transparency and willingness to listen to the community is admirable, take as much time as is needed to ensure the game ends up as excellent as possible, it really could be something amazing.
Secondly as snakefistifso and redscope mentioned itemization and a strong endgame are key, there needs to be depth to the crafting & loot system and also the endgame systems otherwise it will quickly get boring. I think taking a look at path of exile and grim dawn for inspiration wouldn't be a bad idea =)
I just want to be able to progress in Inquisitor Rank with friends without grinding fate to run Tarot missions.
Do that, and all leveling/progression bugs are forgiven!
Daily Quests
There are two big issues with Daily Quests (DQs) and no one has ever addressed them.
1. Your best bet at obtaining what you want eventually comes in the form of DQs. Stop it. DQs can be interesting as side-progression. Don't put your top-tier gear, gameplay, and ideas exclusively in DQs (this goes for many companies).
2. Not enough content. Usually the reason people are upset with DQs is because they can log in, complete them in a short time period, get their daily shot at problem #1, and log out. Build a TON of content around DQs and people will never actually see the daily limit as a problem.
Fate
Fate isn't just some currency. It's how you play the current end-game content (Tarots). People basically reacted to your knee-jerk limitation of their access to end-game content. And developers need to know what end-game content is. Typically, they're wrong.
End-game isn't stuff you do when you're max level. End-game is any game mode that has no real end. There should be no 100% achievable stop point to end-game. Endless missions are one thing, and they're VERY good at exposing exploits, but they get boring. Itemization and randomized environments/levels are the keys to making end-game PvE content.
PvP, although it may not have the same place in this game, is typically the end-game of many RPGs; it has no end and it's always different fighting other players.
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You guys have an awesome game here. You've done a terrific job bringing a multiplayer 40K universe with enticing elements to the gaming community. This is a winning formula and you know it; just don't forget what makes all games great. Don't be afraid to adopt what has worked in the past. Blizzard has made a multi-billion dollar company from ripping off others' good ideas. WoW was a MMO built with the best ideas of all other MMOs at the time, and Overwatch is just TFC with more classes....
Well Octrober milestone is moved to November?
Easily :)
We were the beta tester for VH1, VH2, VH3 and VH:FC. That, and this is some 4 years. Such lack of confidence... We don't feel like proving anything, but there are pages and pages of itemization related texts in old 'beta testers thread', produced by Him, and Others, as well. Much larger and more detailed ones. This one feels like TL;DR compared to them...
Itemization was pretty much the same, sometimes number of affixes varied on Rares, sometimes there was a complicated Runecrafting system giving best possible results and requiring... not so much, etc.
Godlikes in VH:FC were opposite of what they should be, namely allowing 'vanilla boosting' - having absolutely nothing that would favour any special playstyle, the sheer power of attributes and general some-of-everything made them more powerful then specialized builds. And there was only 6 of them (we *think*), anyway one of each type with some 10 affixes. Improving character in *every* way, reducing build finesse and specialties. Better situation, of course, would be in having plenty of them, perhaps with less affixes, but more class-specific and build specific.
We hope the same won't happen here.
But 4 years, yes.
"We are really grateful for your feedback and your help. Hopefully you’ll keep on playing and testing and sending us your ideas – we want to create a great game with your help."
Mighty Snakefist will provide feedback - it's regarding the itemization and it's basically the same feedback He (and some others) are sending last 4 years. As said many, many times, one of primary game motivators, especially true for endgame contents and therefore, the game longevity.
Snakefist, of course, understands that in early access the drop-chances are probably increased, greatly.
Basic items = useless, make starting gear only. Good for nothing, selling/salvaging even - yet still they drop and (worse) are part of mission "reward", making ridding of them a tedious task.
Magic (blue) = much the same, mainly because they have no advantages over greens, and greens are available since early levels. Repeat. he will: in Diablo 2, Magic items could spawn with higher affix values, trumping Rares in affix strength, if not number.
Green - another mystery, because of abundance. Snakefist said that drop-chance may be reduced later, but he also suspect it might not be the case (as in VH-series)
Purple - both random and semi-controlled in crafting, trump greens in every way. We can craft greens, but we can also craft purples - why crafting greens at all after certain point? Problem being, that 'certain point' coming way too early.
Relics - bonus affix, some with uncommon traits. Again, trumping Purples, which may be right, but dropchance is to high (we expect *this* to be lowered back to 5%)
Godlikes - please put more in those, making them unique and play-style changing. Not just 6 of them with bit-of-everything, as in VH:FC.
Snakefist wishes to underline importance of having additive items ecosystem, in contrast to current substituting one.
Additive ecosystem allows usage, full or partial of every item class.
Substituting one fully ignores all previous tiers (Basic and Magic being ignored here from the start) and concentrates on having better items which are different coloured. Oversimplifying it, but yes - chief difference between items is their colour, because random Purples are just somewhat enhanced Greens, and Relics without special affix are just Green/Purple wit additional one.
And there could be more. Oh, so much more. Worthy of many, many play-hours.
thankyou for keeping us informed you guys are doing a good job
As the others have said, massive kudos for remaining open about everything and letting us know what's going on.
That said, I'm a little worried about giving in too much to player demands for making everything accessible faster and reducing waiting times. Reducing excessive grinding is one thing, turning it all into instant gratification is another. I think having all missions give both inquisitor and account XP would help maintain a constant sense of progression (maybe premium missions reward significantly more inquisitor XP to make them still tantalizing to do or something). I suppose crafting times can be cut down a little, but I don't think they're that bad as it is. I've played games where crafting time for super-rare items are measured in DAYS, so a few hours is practically nothing in comparison. :P
I honestly didn't mind the daily missions, I'm pretty sure half the games I play have them, though here they're a bit more open-ended on what to do, so I never felt like I was being specifically forced to go do particular missions, they were just nice bonuses that happened to drop every now and then. And since the last fate change, they were my primary income for that, heh, but I guess the rebalance will take care of that.
I'm glad to hear there'll be more specific end-game content. Sure, the "journey" of leveling is fun, but eventually most of us will hit that cap, and having something to still do will be great. I've never been very big on running alts in MMOs either, so just starting over with another character doesn't really appeal to me.
And, not gonna lie, that last paragraph has me convinced the game is gonna get delayed again as a result. Which is annoying, but understandable, and fine with me if it means the game is even more awesome at launch.
Finally, SQUEE! A Night Lords Contemptor! Such a delicious tease! I can't wait to kill it. :D
I use crafting when I end my gamesession. I made my levelup and start my Crafts over night. Next day i have new stuff to get going. I Never had a problem with the crafting timers and want to see how they work out when all crafting options are available.
If the crafting time is reduced too much, then those parts of the techtree that decrease crafting time make no sense anymore ;)
Thanks for giving us feedback on our own feedback (feedback loop?)
My own position on crafting time is to keep the length as-is, BUT have the timer be reduced by an amount for a successfully completed mission - The greater the difference between the quality and nature of the item being crafted and the difficulty of a mission that was won, the greater the time reduced
Can't wait to see what adjustments you can make on the other gameplay systems as well!
Great to see such open and honest feedback - thanks!
Does this mean that the Oct. update will be pushed back?
Nice writup, thanks for sharing your sight on the community concerns and for clarifying stuff.
Nice. Answered a lot of my question and quieted a lot of my fears from when I wrote the Fate response.
What is that hulking blue skullish thing at the bottom right of the article and what is it for!??? Explain yourself! Is it friend? Foe? Playable?
Just going to pop this here too.
Kudos to you Master of Memes Megapull for bringing this amazingly transparent news, looking forward to the journey ahead awesome things are afoot.
Huge thank you to the entire team on all the hard work and dedication thus far, truely a works blessed by the Emperor himself.
I kneel in fealty as i raise a goblet in honor to you all.
Excellent, you guys are the best Dev team I have ever encountered. Keep up the great work !!
Wow. Thanks for the update. All that looks good! [Other than the fact I would have left the dailies :P]
thankyou for keeping us informed you guys are doing a good job