Martyr vs Diablo 3

16

I started playing D3 again recently, and here are my thoughts:

DIABLO 3
+very smooth
+pretty game
+great overall game design
+"random" endless progression
+mini-bosses (GRs)
+unique elite enemies
+challenging
+difficult maps actually reward high-level players
+unique items and unique builds
+item drops are relatively exciting (I'm currently doing GRs with my WD in hopes of finding primal ancients and making a new build using them)
+meaningful stuff to do (GRs for paragon & primal ancients, bounties for specific items & mats that you need for the many cube recipes, gambling after GRs are the main things I do)
+a lot of variety (read: a lot of skill/rune/item combinations)
+plenty of game info provided
-finding the perfect items takes a lot of grinding

MARTYR:
+good looking game
+nice atmosphere
+40K universe
+action is impactful/fun
+items are re-rollable (relatively easy to create a perfect item)
-no end-game
-no unique items (items are generic and uninspired/boring)
-no sets
-not nearly enough skills
-not challenging for high-level players
-"difficult" missions don't reward the player
-no bosses, sub-bosses, interesting elites
-too much "copy & paste" (eg, maps, enemies, events, etc.)
-nothing meaningful to do for high-level players (even logging in at night to buy mats from the Ordos vendors seems like a waste of time)
-no endless (UC doesn't count...)
-not enough game info (especially crucial bits that determine whether you can fully optimize your build)
-general chat is broken
-horrible...absolutely HORRIBLE lag
-coop game mode is a bad joke
-horrible item/build balance (debuffs/crits are all you need to be strong)

There's more...but I'm getting bored.

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Martyr vs Diablo 3
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2 years 227 days ago

Your counter-arguments are not very convincing, seeing as how most of the truly important stuff in my list USED to be in the game (until Neocore removed it). This includes:
1) endless
2) uniques
3) a boss (granted, it was just one, but it was still a boss you could grind that dropped the uniques)
4) general chat (didn't last long lol...it brought down the servers)
5) difficulty modifier (old Tarot system)

When did you start playing?

This comment was edited 2 years 227 days ago by treecargarage
2 years 227 days ago
treecargarage
i do agreed grinding is not really fun, but

it is ridicolurs to ask end-game or deep level 

without some certainly “complexity”.

if "play" for you is build some meme stupid idea

and troll around., there are plenty game that

designed for such thing, you should not even

go for d3, human fall flat is much better.


2 years 227 days ago

-no end-game

depend on what you expecting from end game, random map system? we always have.

unlimited power level like  d3? it kind eventually killed those build that not on top,

for example, if ledder have like war-zone 500 which is achieved by melee assasion,

while heavy bolter crusader only able to reach war-zone 200, it will be pointless to play

crusader, this is the d3 end game system, build will be diverged to two catagory: recommand

good build, or completely meme build.

a good end game should have a target line that reachable for reasonable build, but do not 

require extrame quality of that. for example,  in borderland 3, zane kill wotan in 3 min, while

moze kill it 10 min (not particulary, just as example), they both end game avaliable, even zane better.


-no unique items

unique item will become 3 catagory :  fundimental of a build,  temporary leveling tool, shitty meme

staff. design a meme item could be little fun at start, but ruin the drop and kind waste of time for 

end game (player may enjoy it first time, but not 100th time see it drop from void crusade cache).

temoprary leveling tool? they eventually useless, and for a classic hack slash arpg, leveling should not

take too much resource, the fun and main part should be build a character, not prepare the first step. 

also we do have acient relic which is unique (their enchant is based on whole mechanic it focused, like 

purity seal for heat damage) on status. and unique art and lore is another story, people also will ignore 

it in end game


-no sets

again, none or nothing design, which i strongly against, tbh, d3 is kind a brain-dead game compare with

other classic arpg : copy a build guide online, do whatever get those unique, you all set. thanks to set

system.


-not enough game info

agreed, we do need more of this


-coop game mode is a bad joke

who are you? go for a party or nighclub if you need so much people to get high

or you can do some mmo like wow or destiny rather a classic hack slash arpg

or just pvp like moba game and pubg (it help you cooldown from social maniac)


-not nearly enough skills

again, meme skill and trash skill is waste of time, we still have many "not really worthy" weapon skill now,

balance them first, also the game engine is alreay in the shape we know, it is hardly to

put more skill in, and 6 around skill actually is quite enough for average play (or you want something like classic world of warcraft?) the skill design usually contain some thing like ult or large clean, basic attack, basic buff and debuff,

movement. we do have those, maybe better to have better orgnize for 4 weapon skill, belt, armor, and resource first

(like flame thrower will face big problem on heat now, it kind stop player fully use its mechanic)


-no endless

again, endless should not be main part of end game, or people will keep copy build, use similar build

again and again, or develper will struggle with stupid nerf and rework loop


-too much "copy & paste" (eg, maps, enemies, events, etc.)

this is everywhere in your lovely endless game.


-not challenging for high-level players

now we have huge nerf on survival and we have 120 level enemy now

by the way, more enemy mechanic means less avilable build,  player will 

struggle in loop like knock back vs knock back immue, stun vs stune immue

its ok to have, but should not be core of game


-"difficult" missions don't reward the player

that is true, the time efficiency of 10 level red mission is much lower than green crusade


-no bosses, sub-bosses, interesting elites

it struggling again with game balance, mechanic vs counter and immue of mechanic,

the best choice for player still forcefully break it. the elite we have is actuall ok enough

for their skill number to fight (unless you want more flashy but not very meaningful 

time killer phase)


-horrible item/build balance (debuffs/crits are all you need to be strong)

insuccient survival ability and enemy armor system is the major problem.

we do have dot buff now, but dot better have its armor break or armor penetrate.

also, mostly classic arpg will fall into focus special major mechanic to boost

your dps, usully crit is mostly used since crit usually become fundimental,

then people start to looking for differernt things like cooldown, combo.


also, if you play green or yellow level mostly time, this is not even apporparity 

difficult level to judgge the game balance (for example. judgge d3 with normal level is really 

stupid, even first 20 level of end game trial should be fundimental ). 

red level intel mission or 10 level above is better enviroument to juddge


also, the build aviability of d3 is actually a joke, it based on its long time period 

of post developing, each build come with certain set or unique, this means there

are not space for player to balance or build around, everything is about grind

uniques and limited by uniques, player have no where to choice beside the 

staff that developer throw on their face


Titan Quest? grimdawn? even path of exile are better game to compare

a classic arpg game with stupid "shut up and go exactly where i point" is not worthy

to be play, you do no different from watch other play, actually its easier since

you do not need farm or grind. 

2 years 230 days ago
-1
I'd also like to add that no game is complex. If you're looking for complexity, you should go read a book.

What determines winning (read: optimization) in ARPGs is the amount of hours you can afford to grind.
Others have said it. I'll say it again. Grinding in this game is not fun. Playing it normally, however, is (or would be if they fixed its many problems).

2 years 230 days ago
Posted by AuretiousTaak 2 years 230 days ago
This Thread is incorrectly labelled, it should be under Discussion, NOT Feedback.


If you don't like Martyr, don't play Martyr.

It's that simple.

It's like all the people bitching about the Season - it's a FREE content uupdate, you don't have to play it, the rest of us will enjoy the restart and figurintg out ways to optimise the ladder race.

Many, ARPG's have seasons, not all of them work.

Diablo 3 isn't even the best ARPG out there. Go try Grim Dawn and don't come back whinging about how the skill trees, the multiclassing and the constellations are too complex let alone all the gear. You want a seriously indepth ARPG, go play Grim Dawn. It craps all over Diablo 3 and its' endgame is even more expansive.

Marty ticks all the boxes when it comes to engrossing, correct to the setting, story line.

It's endgame may be lacking a bit but here's something you haven't figured out yet - co-op gameplay, the difficulty is based on whoever hosts the mission. If you have a level 11 character crackinga level 98 mission then everybody, even the level 100's are starting with a +89 mission (it's like -99% damage dealt and +34,000 damage taken by the way, it was brutal, but there are ways to mitigate the damage and survive at least for a little bit, killing stuff though, lolololol - yeah, I and my friends have pushed the boundaries of the game and we haven't whinged aboiut it because we coulodn't figure that out, unlike yourself).

Again, Martyr is NOT Diablo 3 or any other ARPG. It is its' own thing, created and run by a small studio with a small player base.

All we really need for endgame tos atisfy everyone in a minimalist patch is for ethe devs to give us Tarot cards thatc ana ctivate at whatever levels you have unlocked even lower then max levels, and also tarot cards thatc over missions in the 100 to 120 range. Combine that with giving us like 20 extra shared storage tabs f4or all our gear so we don't use all of our spare characters as gear caddies and with seasons out, now we have everything people want at a basic level - being able to play difficult missions at or above our level for our characters whenever we want not having toi be forced to play void crusades toi get there and more, and desperately needed at that, storage space.

But yeah, stop whinging about how Martyr is not a different game you play - go play that game instead if you feel thje need tor ant about how much Martyr isn't that game. you know, do the logical thing.

I bought Grim Dawn, but uninstalled it because I didn't find the gameplay as good as D3 or Martyr.

As for Martyr, my list is accurate. It has a LOT of weaknesses that can be fixed, but it's most likely not gonna happen.
Let me list them again, so that you can explain to me why they're not there after two years:
-no end-game
-no unique items (items are generic and uninspired/boring)
-no sets
-not nearly enough skills
-not challenging for high-level players
-"difficult" missions don't reward the player
-no bosses, sub-bosses, interesting elites
-too much "copy & paste" (eg, maps, enemies, events, etc.)
-nothing meaningful to do for high-level players (even logging in at night to buy mats from the Ordos vendors seems like a waste of time)
-no endless (UC doesn't count...)
-not enough game info (especially crucial bits that determine whether you can fully optimize your build)
-general chat is broken
-horrible...absolutely HORRIBLE lag
-coop game mode is a bad joke
-horrible item/build balance (debuffs/crits are all you need to be strong)

As for pushing the boundaries of the game...LOL is all I have to say. I pushed the boundaries of the game months ago.
Now, all I do is log in at night and purchase mats.

This comment was edited 2 years 230 days ago by treecargarage
2 years 230 days ago
This Thread is incorrectly labelled, it should be under Discussion, NOT Feedback.


If you don't like Martyr, don't play Martyr.

It's that simple.

It's like all the people bitching about the Season - it's a FREE content uupdate, you don't have to play it, the rest of us will enjoy the restart and figurintg out ways to optimise the ladder race.

Many, ARPG's have seasons, not all of them work.

Diablo 3 isn't even the best ARPG out there. Go try Grim Dawn and don't come back whinging about how the skill trees, the multiclassing and the constellations are too complex let alone all the gear. You want a seriously indepth ARPG, go play Grim Dawn. It craps all over Diablo 3 and its' endgame is even more expansive.

Marty ticks all the boxes when it comes to engrossing, correct to the setting, story line.

It's endgame may be lacking a bit but here's something you haven't figured out yet - co-op gameplay, the difficulty is based on whoever hosts the mission. If you have a level 11 character crackinga level 98 mission then everybody, even the level 100's are starting with a +89 mission (it's like -99% damage dealt and +34,000 damage taken by the way, it was brutal, but there are ways to mitigate the damage and survive at least for a little bit, killing stuff though, lolololol - yeah, I and my friends have pushed the boundaries of the game and we haven't whinged aboiut it because we coulodn't figure that out, unlike yourself).

Again, Martyr is NOT Diablo 3 or any other ARPG. It is its' own thing, created and run by a small studio with a small player base.

All we really need for endgame tos atisfy everyone in a minimalist patch is for ethe devs to give us Tarot cards thatc ana ctivate at whatever levels you have unlocked even lower then max levels, and also tarot cards thatc over missions in the 100 to 120 range. Combine that with giving us like 20 extra shared storage tabs f4or all our gear so we don't use all of our spare characters as gear caddies and with seasons out, now we have everything people want at a basic level - being able to play difficult missions at or above our level for our characters whenever we want not having toi be forced to play void crusades toi get there and more, and desperately needed at that, storage space.

But yeah, stop whinging about how Martyr is not a different game you play - go play that game instead if you feel thje need tor ant about how much Martyr isn't that game. you know, do the logical thing.

2 years 232 days ago
-3
@Brother Kundari: I also downvoted all of your posts in this thread because they contributed nothing and made close to no sense.
2 years 232 days ago
-3
Posted by Brother Kundari 2 years 233 days ago
How about bringing this whole thing to a final end, and just be done with it?

Diablo 3 is Diablo 3 and Inquisitor is Inquisitor, which is 2 different games, and can be truly seen that it is, and I´m very happy about that, and then let it just be with that.


I know, for a fact, that if people go play Inquisitor for the sake of: Yayy, look, it´s JUST like Diablo 3, in space. Then the answer is NO. It is not. And most people with that attitude is going to be very dissapointed.


And besides, I know for a fact that Inquisitor - Martyr is going to be improved way more then we so far is aware of. There´s a lot more coming. And I´m excited.

And with that I have said enough. Most people know exactly what I mean with the things I say here. Anyways, I´m going to let this thread go now, and never come back to it.

Three times you said they can't be compared.

Three times you never explained why.
Are you a bot?
Btw, I've been playing D3 every day ever since I installed it. It's fun. I compare it to Martyr every single time I do.

This comment was edited 2 years 232 days ago by treecargarage
2 years 233 days ago
-1
How about bringing this whole thing to a final end, and just be done with it?

Diablo 3 is Diablo 3 and Inquisitor is Inquisitor, which is 2 different games, and can be truly seen that it is, and I´m very happy about that, and then let it just be with that.


I know, for a fact, that if people go play Inquisitor for the sake of: Yayy, look, it´s JUST like Diablo 3, in space. Then the answer is NO. It is not. And most people with that attitude is going to be very dissapointed.


And besides, I know for a fact that Inquisitor - Martyr is going to be improved way more then we so far is aware of. There´s a lot more coming. And I´m excited.

And with that I have said enough. Most people know exactly what I mean with the things I say here. Anyways, I´m going to let this thread go now, and never come back to it.

2 years 235 days ago
Posted by Brother Kundari 2 years 237 days ago
And I ask again. Why do people always use Diablo 3 to compare with, when these 2 games can´t even BE compared? They are 2 completely different games. They are nothing like each other.

I´m not saying that inquisitor - Martyr doesn´t have room for improvements, because it does and it SHOULD be improved. But stop this thing with comparing Diablo 3 with Inquisitor. Please, just stop it.

Why not compare it with something else instead? I´m tired of this Diablo 3 comparison.


Why is it always Diablo 3?!!?

Why not Titan Quest? Van Helsing? Path of Exile? Wolcen? Etc, etc.. Or for that matter, upcoming Diablo 4 (which is likely not that much better then Diablo 3 already is).

Why you dont bring chaosbane to the menu? First its another warhammer themed game so the comparison might be fitting. Next they did lack any interesting endgame at lauch, but now constantly try improving  in endgame with new item tiers, item sets,, difficulties, boss fights...

This comment was edited 2 years 235 days ago by BYCROM
2 years 236 days ago
Posted by Brother Kundari 2 years 237 days ago
And I ask again. Why do people always use Diablo 3 to compare with, when these 2 games can´t even BE compared? They are 2 completely different games. They are nothing like each other.

I´m not saying that inquisitor - Martyr doesn´t have room for improvements, because it does and it SHOULD be improved. But stop this thing with comparing Diablo 3 with Inquisitor. Please, just stop it.

Why not compare it with something else instead? I´m tired of this Diablo 3 comparison.


Why is it always Diablo 3?!!?

Why not Titan Quest? Van Helsing? Path of Exile? Wolcen? Etc, etc.. Or for that matter, upcoming Diablo 4 (which is likely not that much better then Diablo 3 already is).

What's so different about the two games? You still haven't said.

2 years 237 days ago
And I ask again. Why do people always use Diablo 3 to compare with, when these 2 games can´t even BE compared? They are 2 completely different games. They are nothing like each other.

I´m not saying that inquisitor - Martyr doesn´t have room for improvements, because it does and it SHOULD be improved. But stop this thing with comparing Diablo 3 with Inquisitor. Please, just stop it.

Why not compare it with something else instead? I´m tired of this Diablo 3 comparison.


Why is it always Diablo 3?!!?

Why not Titan Quest? Van Helsing? Path of Exile? Wolcen? Etc, etc.. Or for that matter, upcoming Diablo 4 (which is likely not that much better then Diablo 3 already is).

2 years 237 days ago
+2

A wise man would always look for inspiration understand what is working and put something on top of that. I hope the people behind Matyr are wise enough 


Both d3 and Matyr are shallow APRGS.  Shallow is not necessarily a bad thing. It just means accessable to everyone. Not too deep skill trees limited customization.  Not as shallow as minecraft dungeons but you got the point.


Now the question is how can a shallow APRG  still be interesting on the longer run. AND for that D3 delivers some interesting blueprints...

 

This comment was edited 2 years 237 days ago by BYCROM
2 years 237 days ago
-2

I know you can't answer my question, so in the meantime, here's an easier one:

Tell me which of Martyr's negatives can't be fixed (to match D3).
Answer: none

This comment was edited 2 years 237 days ago by treecargarage
2 years 237 days ago
Posted by Brother Kundari 2 years 237 days ago
Sorry, but why are you actually comparing Inquisitor - Martyr next to Diablo 3 for?

These 2 games are totally and absolutely different games and have nothing, and I say absolutely NOTHING to do with each other. They are not even CLOSE to be anything comparable with each other.


The one and only thing that is comparable regarding these 2 games is the fact they are both games belonging to the genre that is called ARPG. And that´s the one and only thing. Nothing else, at all.


There is and have never been such a thing as Inquisitor - Martyr is Yyaaayyyy, yihhaa, just like Diablo 3. With such a attitude you are bound to get very dissapointed very fast.

I wish for one day that it may happen that Inquisitor - Martyr is getting a GAMEMODE that is and may LOOK like something like is in games like Diablo, Path of Exile, Titan Quest etc..

Explain to me how they're "totally and absolutely different games".

2 years 237 days ago
Sorry, but why are you actually comparing Inquisitor - Martyr next to Diablo 3 for?

These 2 games are totally and absolutely different games and have nothing, and I say absolutely NOTHING to do with each other. They are not even CLOSE to be anything comparable with each other.


The one and only thing that is comparable regarding these 2 games is the fact they are both games belonging to the genre that is called ARPG. And that´s the one and only thing. Nothing else, at all.


There is and have never been such a thing as Inquisitor - Martyr is Yyaaayyyy, yihhaa, just like Diablo 3. With such a attitude you are bound to get very dissapointed very fast.

I wish for one day that it may happen that Inquisitor - Martyr is getting a GAMEMODE that is and may LOOK like something like is in games like Diablo, Path of Exile, Titan Quest etc..